Friday, April 26, 2019

Death Prediction: Baldur (God of War) vs Siegfried (Saint Seiya)


Some characters are "tanks", focusing on raw durability and wearing down an opponent. And there are some characters, like these two Norse Warriors, whose defense is so high they are practically invulnerable!

Baldur, The God of Light who can not be killed

Dubhe Alpha Siegfried, Leader of Odin's God Warriors

I am Imperator100, and this is a Death Prediction.





Baldur:
Baldur was born between the King of the Aesir, Odin and the Queen of the Vanir, Freya. On his birth, the runes foretold for him a needless death. To protect him, Freya cast a spell to protect him from death. However as a side-effect of this Baldur was stripped of his ability to feel anything. He could feel no physical sensation, which filled him with anger, resentment and eventually self-loathing at his own ability to be brave and fight like a warrior.

Unable to change his state, Baldur slowly grew more psychopathic as the lack of any sensation began to degrade his mind. He worked for Odin the all-father as a tracker, relentlessly pursuing the enemies of Asgard across the realms, not being able to be stopped by any force.



Element Manipulation:
As the God of Light, Baldur can manipulate light to either glow brightly or to use it in more directly offensive ways.


When the spell protecting Baldur was broken, he also seemed to have the strange ability to absorb and utilize any element he was exposed too. 

When he was caught in a fiery explosion, he gained the ability to manipulate fire, including creating a fiery explosion himself and throwing fireballs.

When he got hit by the icy head of Kratos' leviathan axe, he gained ice manipulation abilities. He could encase his fist in ice to boost it's power, create an ice explosion or throw ice bolts


Image result for baldur gif

Strength:

Jormungandr is so massive that it wraps around Midgard itself but that's only the least of it's feats. The first battle of Thor and Jormungandr was of such intensity that it could be felt across the 9 realms, the realms collectively making the "Norse Universe". And it is said that during their final fight at Ragnarok, their clash shall be so violent as to splinter the world tree Yggdrasil. Yggdrasil is the center of the Norse Universe, holding all 9 realms on it, each with their own outer space with stars. For an object to bear the mass of other objects, especially in cosmological terms like this would require the first object to have significantly more mass then the other objects, suggesting that the World Tree has far more mass then the Norse Universe! Yggdrasil does this so easily that it does not break even though it bears this weight for the lifespan of the universe, and it is said by Freya that even a single strand of Yggdrasil surpasses spacetime.

Also notable is that Baldur knocks out the great serpent despite the massive size difference. If Baldur's strike only JUST met the level of power of Jormundandr's durability, it may have been able to bruise or piece his hide, like a needle with human skin, but to effect him significantly it would require him to effect a significant part of Jormungandr's head, requiring the actual force as point of impact to be much stronger. 


While Kratos is a lot weaker then he was from God of War due to losing the power of hope, he still possessed the powers of the God of War and the power of the Greek Gods does not decline, and in fact Hades implies that he grows stronger with the number of souls he's absorbed suggesting their power only grows in time. 


Kratos himself easily scales to these feats in his God of War form, even without the power of hope. Kratos himself is strong enough close a realm tear by himself, physically closing a tear in reality. The dwarf Sindri is shocked at this and marvels at the strength needed which considering the beings Sindri has personally worked with (Sindri and Brok forged Thor's hammer), is very telling of Kratos' strength.




Speed:


In the same game that Kratos fights Baldur he can fight on par speedwise with Gunnr, Mistress of War. Gunnr is so fast that she was the first of the valkyrie to every single conflict big or small sporting out the worthy spirits. This would be insane enough on our earth, but she does it on all 9 realms all flowing at different rates of time and many of them seeming to contain more conflicts then our Earth, such as Alfheim in conflict between the light and dark elves.

In other words her speed is such that she can be at every single conflict going on! Even more notable is she would have to cross a distance of Yggdrasil, containing stars, in order to between realms. 

During the Viking Age of roughly 700 AD to 1000 AD the world population was estimated to be between 2.7 Million to 295 Million. While this is likely a lowball for the God of War Norse Midgard, given how the world also has non-human sentient species, we can use the 2.7 figure as a lowball. Assuming that every second at least 1 in 1 Million people are getting into some fight, another lowball given the violent nature of the world and how many large battles occurred, that means Gunnr would need to cross inter-stellar distances 2.7 times back and forth every second. Using the average distance between stars in our galaxy (5 light-years) this would be speeds of 255 quadrillion 420 trillion meters per second or nearly 852 Million times the speed of light. And this is a massive lowball.

With only the dormant power of hope, Kratos defeated The Fates and given that with the active power of hope Kratos still struggled to defeat Ares the God of War, it's likely God of War Kratos scales to the Fates speed. The Fates weaved threads to control the Fates of all things in the world from every single animal, to the movements of the landscape, all requiring precise and exact measurement...every single point.

Because they control every single point and also controlling the movements of every animal this would require every point to be at maximum the size of the smallest animal. The Smallest Animal in the World is Mxyobolus Shekel at 8.5 micrometers or 0.0000085 meters. This equates to a spherical volume of about 0.00000000000000257441 meters cubed for point dimensions. This is not merely the surface area of the Earth as there are clearly fish below the surface of the water, animals that live underground and the tectonic activity of volcanos happens underground, so instead the dimensions of the Earth must be used. The Earth's volume is just over sextillion cubic meters meaning there are about 4.21e35 points on the Earth. These cloth are visually about about a quarter meter in diameter compared to Kratos' height. Assuming the Fates must at least move the diameter of all the threads each second, a low-ball as the must take precise measurements, then they must be moving at about 105.24 DECILLION meters per second or over 351 SEPTILLION times the speed of light.

And this is a low-ball as Clotho says that all life comes through her, suggesting bacteria would also be formed through her, lowering the point dimensions even more and the God of War Earth is far more massive then ours. 




Endurance/Invulnerability:
Baldur's curse made him invulnerable to Death, and keeps him from being killed. Baldur has visibly healed himself of his own injuries, his neck being snapped only seems to temporarily inconvenience him, and has effectively infinite pain resistance as he can no longer feel any sensation.


Even without his curse however, Baldur is able to withstand a brutal beating from Kratos which means his durability should scale to the feats mentioned above.

With his curse and raw durability, Baldur was considered the toughest opponent Kratos had faced.



Skill:
Baldur, most likely due to his vast experience, has become quite good at combat. He is able to fight quite dexterously, and uses grapples to incapacitate his opponent in combat. Here he uses a wrestling suplex against Kratos.  This is potentially related to the Nordic Wrestling style known as "Glima", a grapple heavy sport, that generally likes to pin the enemy. 

Baldur's skill is so good that he can fight evenly with Kratos, who is centuries old at this point and has served as a spartan general for many years, then served the gods for over 10 years fighing monsters, then was the God of War for several more years. Baldur living for over 100 years suggests over time he has built up some experience.

Baldur is also Odin's greatest tracker and was able to escape Helheim despite such being supposedly impossible as well as track Kratos and Atreus across the realms. 


Weaknesses:
Baldur's most famous weaknesses is mistletoe, the weakness of the vanir spell Freya cast. Being pierced by mistletoe will break the spell that Freya cast, destroying his invulnerability.

Baldur also has been mentally shaped by his spell. He fights with reckless abandon, not caring much about enemy strikes as they cannot kill him. When the spell was removed he also did not act much to protect himself, so ecstatic was he at all sensation, including pain.

Also while he can die, he can still be temporarily incapacitated as what happened when Kratos broke his neck and he was stopped for a bit while it restored. Daggers and arrows can penetrate his skin just fine, they just don't...do anything to him.


Personality:
Baldur was once a perfectly sweet child. However a CENTURY of lack of any feeling or sensation whatsoever decayed his mental sanity, driving him to psychopathy and general apathy. Deep within he is eternally suffering, despising himself for not being able to live life as a man should, unable to enjoy sensual pleasures, unable to risk his life or die in battle. To someone of the viking culture, this is truly a fate worth then death.

Baldur masks this with an outwardly angry and resentful demeanor. He exhibits no concerns for almost anything, as he won't be killed. 




Siegfried:
Is a remote land far to the north, blanketed by ice and snow since time immemorial is the land of Asgard. The people there live in reverence to the Norse deities. From them sprung the legendary great hero Siegfried, who gained his fame by slaying a demonic dragon (4:35). However Siegfried fell into a trap and was slain by men who envied his fame and fortune (17:45)

A millenia later, the priestess of the god Odin, under strange circumstance, would revive 7 figures and imbue them with the powers of the 7 God Cloths of Odin (5:20). The strongest of which was Siegfried, who after being given the Dubhe Alpha God Cloth became the leader of the God Warriors and supreme guardian of Asgard, Dubhe Alpha Siegfried. 




Cosmo:
Cosmo is the mystical energy of which all Saint Seiya verse feats are accomplished. Cosmo lies dormant within all people. 15 Billion years ago, the Big Bang created all the atoms in the universe all matter from people to stars. The body too is a mini-universe, and by burning one's cosmo within one can create a big bang allowing for miraculous feats. Cosmo is at it's most basic form, manipulation of the atoms that make up the user and all the other objects in the universe. Even a Saint Initiate has enough control of atoms to turn a nuclear reactor into a threat to all life on the planet. The amount of Cosmo is partly dependent on training but also partially dependent on natural talent as well as will and emotional state, and can rise drastically over the course of a battle. Cosmo is most often used to amplify the physical capacities of the user, and is mostly used as raw destructive waves of force, however it actually has a variety of usages.

Cosmo allows for the attacking of all manner of intangible things such as intangible ghosts  or a curse and light photons, seeing the true forms of prayers, and replenish and rejuvenate their atoms. It also allows for general telepathy and sensing of other cosmo. It  grants resistance to pretty much any ability or hax, with the greater amount of cosmo, the greater the resistance. Even the most basic cosmo users were able to resist a universal time freeze. The Gold Saints were able to resist the soul manipulation of the titans, capable of creating whole dimensions full of entities with their own souls, and various form of reality-warping as well. Cosmo can allow for the manipulation of the natural forces and elements, even the attacks of enemies as shown when Gemini Saga turned the attacks of 3 bronze saints back on them.

As a God Warrior of Asgard, Siegfried has a very powerful degree of cosmo known as the Seventh Sense, a sense transcending the 5 human senses and mind the sixth sense. The Seventh Sense replenishes the other senses when opened, as noted by Shiryu who had previously been blind but regained his sight upon opening his seventh sense. The Seventh Sense allows for the overcoming of natural laws and limitations.

Siegfried's own cosmo is said to be comparable to the legendary "god-slayer" Gold Saint Gemini Saga, making him at the very top end of the users of the seventh sense power wise. In fact in Soul of Gold Siegfried from beyond the grave was able to use his cosmo to protect his brother Sigmund from the Galaxian Explosion, the ultimate attack of Gemini Saga (11:35) This likely means his cosmo power is above the techniques of the mid tier gold saints, like Aries Mu who at age 13 used his "Starlight Extinction" technique to destroy the universe of the titan Iapetus before using his "Stardust Revolution" technique to create a greater universe. Powerful but the Galaxian Explosion of Gemini Saga is referred to as the strongest attack technique of the saints, meaning it should be above even this. 

Like most Cosmo Users Siegfried can channel his cosmo in generic punches, blasts and waves of forces emanting from his body, but he generally prefers to use techniques. He has two notable techniques, the first being "Odin Sword" where he fires a bold from his finger and draws a circle, with a wave of force blasting upwards anything within the circle. This was able to overwhelm even the famous defensive technique of the Andromeda chains. However he has an even stronger technique known as "Dragon Bravest Blizzard" where he channels a dragon head in each of his hands and fires them as two blasts of cosmo at a target.



Animated GIF
Strength:
Basic Applications of Cosmo drastically increase one's strength, allowing the user to perform highly supernatural feats, even ones that don't make sense. Famously before even becoming the Bronze Dragon Saint, Shiryu with his sheer might was able to reverse the flow of a waterfall. Likewise before becoming the Bronze Cygnus Saint, Hyoga was able to destroy with his punch a glacier that did not melt for 10,000 years.

Siegfried's might was strong enough to easily knock around the Asgard Arc Bronze Saints however even that is not giving his strength enough credit. 

Siegfried's cosmo, and thus his might is supposedly comparable to Gemini Saga's, who was able to pierce his own gold cloth with his hand to commit suicide. Bear in mind that the Gold Cloth of Gemini Saga in the anime tanked the combined power of the bronze saints replicating the big bang. And this is the Saint Seiya Big Bang which is likely even stronger then our big bang, as the Athena Exclamation, an attack with the power of the Saint Seiya Big Bang is far stronger then any normal Gold Saint technique, including universal ones. 



Animated GIF

Speed:
Even those just opening their seventh sense can move at the speed of light. The witch of the moon Hecate, a relatively low tier Seventh Sense user can travel 1,000 lightyears in minutes requiring speeds of hundreds of millions of times faster then light.

However that's child's play. In the Sanctuary Arc before the Asgard Arc, Ikki without his cloth believed he had the capacity to fly quadrillions of kilometers way, and not just that but the far reaches of the universe in minutes at most, speeds requiring respectively hundreds of millions to quadrillions of times the speed of light. Also during the sanctuary arc, the bronze saint Andromeda Shun's chains attacked The Sanctuary's Pope through inter-dimensional space, through the "another dimension" technique in seconds, which if another dimension is it's own universe would require speeds quadrillions of times the speed of light at least.

However this is still not even close to the full speed. Siegfried was able to blitz Phoenix Ikki when earlier Ikki was able to move comparable to Gemini Saga...twice. How fast is Gemini Saga?

Gemini Saga without his cloth was able to launch an attack so quickly that Mid Tier Gold Saint Leo Aioria was unable to react or see it at all. Similar Mid Tier Gold Saint Capricorn Shura with his technique Excalibur was able to cut the big bang in half. To do this he had to outpace the initial expansion of the universe. This initial expansion of the universe caused it to grow to 0.88 milimeters in 10^-32 seconds or 0.0000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds. This would likely require speeds of over 30 SEPTILLION c. Saga can blitz Mid Tier Gold Saints, and Siegfried has a cosmo comparable to Saga and also blitzed Ikki who was able to match Saga. 



Animated GIF

Endurance/Invulnerability:
When Siegfried slayed the dragon, the blood washed over his body and rendered it invulnerable to all attack (6:25). Now his skin is claimed to be completely impenetrable.

Beyond that Siegfried's God Cloth and Cosmo can boost his durability even without his invulnerability up to the level of his own strength. His God Cloth as mentioned before was made manifest in front of his brother to protect him from Gemini Saga's "Galaxian Explosion"

The same Galaxian Explosion was said to be of the highest destructive power of the Gold Saints and even threatened to kill Sealed Cronos, destroying his body and astral form. Cronos was even sealed by far the strongest of the titans, including ones such as Iapetus who could create their own universes. Yet Siegfried's cloth can protect against even this and his skin is stronger still.



Skill:
Siegfried is a highly skilled warrior. He was able to defeat the great dragon before even gaining his powers and becoming a God Warrior and he was able to fight blow for blow with the Saints of Athena, and the Saints of Athena's training with cosmo over many years brings them to superhuman levels of skill.

Animated GIF

Weaknesses:
When Siegfried was exposed to the blood of the dragon a leaf fell and covered up a small area on his back. Now that section of him is vulnerable to assault when he attacks for 1/100,000th of a second, from either side of his body positioned right above his heart.

Also while Siegfried's skin is invulnerable, things that don't touch his skin can still affect him. This is how the music based attack of Siren Sorrento was able to harm him. 

In addition, Siegfried is rather arrogant, presuming to be much stronger then his enemies and that his invulnerability will protect him.


Personality:
Siegfried is above all else, loyal. Loyal to his family, loyal to his country and loyal to his duty. He is characterized by valuing his loyalties above even his own life.

Outside of this Siegfried is confident, sometimes overtly so. 




Alright the combatants are set. It's time....FOR A DEATH PREDICTION!



The winds blow harshly and coldly over Asgard. People were staying in, for the runes had foretold of a great conflict. A light snow fell, somehow at odds with it's serenity with the imminent chaos that hung in the air.

A stranger to this land walked through the Valhalla palace at a rapid rate, quickly approaching the statue of the Allfather.

"Stop!" demanded an imposing voice. Stepping out into the gentle light came an imposing figure, standing in opposition to the stranger.

Siegfried was confused at the emergence of this new entity. He wore little clothing despite the cold, and he emanated such a faint cosmo that it might as well not have been there. What did he think he was doing?

"None are permitted to approach the sacred Odin Robe. Leave this place stranger."

Baldur chuckled to himself at this foolish mortal. He had heard here the Allfather had left a bit of magic capable of breaking his curse. "Ohhh really? I'd be real pleased to see you try and stop me from grabbing it."

The two tensed up and there was a mutual slight surprise that whispered in their minds as their superhuman reflexes noticed the very slight tenses of the body at speeds far greater then the other imagined. 

Fight!



Baldur surged forth and gave Siegfried a quick punch sending a shockwave effect. Siegfried, not expecting this speed level was just barely able to block it in time. Siegfried got sent flying backwards crashing into a wall and cratering it, before landing on his feet perfectly fine.

"Hmmm...not bad" He said light-heartedly. Baldur approached him to strike again before Siegfried repeated the exchange in reverse, zipping over faster then expected and knocking him with a cosmo burst across the courtyard snapping through several trees.

Siegfried headed over only to see his opponent standing up with the same expression, as if he hadn't even registered the impact.

The two charged each other's positions ready to resume the melee. Baldur ducked under and delivered two swift strikes to Siegfried's midsection, sending him away, his feet digging two indents into the ground. Baldur quickly moved to grab a rock to use as an improptu weapon against his opponent, launching it at speeds far greater then light.

Siegfried meanwhile spoke "Odin's Sword!" aloud with a quick finger flick creating a circle in the ground. The stone collided with Siegfried's torso knocking him down while Baldur was thrown suddenly into the air. Neither much registered the event.

Baldur quickly lunged from the air down to Siegfried's position. A casual burst and the stone exploded as Siegfried bounded into the air to meet Baldur's challenge. Mid-Air Baldur evaded Siegfried's strike and grabbing his midsection suplexed him into the ground, sending a great crashing dust and dirt in every direction knocking down trees and cracking the ground with a thunderous sound.

Siegfried rolled backwards onto his feet, unscathed. Baldur laughed at him "Starting to wear down?" He asked his voice filled with sarcasm.

Siegfried responded "Not at all!" and raised his fists back for a Dragon Bravest Blizzard however Baldur slammed his fists into the ground, sending a light shockwave at Siegfried's position. Siegfried quickly sidestepped, but Baldur expected this and superleaped next to him. 

Siegfried nimbly dodged the way out of Baldur's first strike from the right and tried to lunge internally with his own right fist only for Baldur to bring his right arm down, slamming both of their right sides down slightly. 

Thinking quickly, Baldur illuminated his left arm with light shining brighly into Siegfried's face as he prepared to slam his arm down on the God Warrior. However Siegfried's seventh sense kept his sight intact and he brought his arm upwards to snare Baldur's left arm, the two grappling. Siegfried brought his right fist in as did Baldur and two connecting causing a massive ringing to split the air, and a great amount of snow and space to be melted at once, a black vortex appearing where they were fighting.

 

Next thing Siegfried knew, he found himself clinging to a gargantuan piece of wood extending to either horizon in a great black void. 

"What? The World Tree? How did our collision send us here?!" Baldur exclaimed angrily. "No Matter! I can find my own way back, but I can't imagine mortal that you'll find it as easily." Baldur laughed as he superleapt upwards.

Siegfried quickly called out "Odin's Sword!" and created a sideway circle on the tree a bit above where Baldur was, creating a wave of force knocking Baldur away from the tree. Seizing the opportunity Siegfried leapt onto Baldur before throwing a haymaker into his face. Baldur was sent reeling through the void, before he turned back with a sadistic smirk and knocked Siegfried with such force as to send down to Helheim. Baldur landed near him.

Siegfried picked himself up from the dirt, taking a defensive stance at this seemingly invulnerable enemy....wait...

Baldur approached him deliberately slowly "You're gonna pay for that." he said menacingly. 

Siegfried's mind raced....calling him mortal.....seeming invulnerability.....had the god Baldur taken a host body?!

Baldur misread the look on Siegfried's face as fear and laughed before lighting up with energy and  charging his position, sending the God Warrior zipping across the realm, splitting lakes and rivers of lava, creating canyons of magma, sparks flying before he steadied himself. The heat was oppressive but did not harm Siegfried.

Siegfried leapt in the direction of his enemy and Baldur leapt to meet the challenge, the two faster then light beings forming new rainbow bridges under their feet as they split light underneath them.

Siegfried called two dragons into his hands and began yelling "Dragon..."

Baldur grabbed his midsection as he did preparing to suplex him again. However Siegfried was expecting this

"Bravest Blizzard" he yelled pointing at the ground, the energy blast sending the two upwards past clouds of sulfuric heat and into the black void hitting the world tree at angle and getting sent flying into the distance.

The sudden heat was replaced by sudden cold as they landed in Alfheim, a world of plentiful beauty.

For all the annoyance this was causing Baldur, the fight was one of the more enjoyable. Baldur zipped serpentine to avoid the cosmo blasts of Siegfried before leaping directly at him, sending him crashing through the planet of this world, a new mountain forming on the other side from upheaved stone.

Deciding this new mountain was as good a weapon as any, Baldur swiftly kicked it sending it flying at Siegfried. "Dragon Bravest Blizzard" yelled Siegfried, his cosmo exploding the mountain. The God of Light hopped from stone to stone as they seemingly hung in midair to him. 

Strangely the God Warrior was nowhere to be found.

"Where are you hiding?" said Baldur annoyed until suddenly he felt a pain in his back.

"What....what is this? Baldur said, ecstacy coming to his mind as he realized he could feel the sudden pain...and then more incredibly he could begin feeling everything around him snap into being.

Siegfried had hoped the mistletoe he had quickly searched the planet for would work but his opponent seemed not just not saddness, but glad at the small plant.

Siegfried tried to launch another quick attack, sending his cosmo bursting forth, as he surprise attacked Baldur.

However to both their surprise, Baldur's form rippled with a new energy, as he quickly absorbed cosmo.

"Well isn't this a pleasant surprise?" Baldur said.



Siegfried stood in horror and amazement as Baldur's cosmo level fluctated wildly.

"I can feel!" He yelled in amazament. Baldur's mind quickly became flooded with new sensations, the cosmo connecting him to the sensations of the universe. "I can FEEL EVERYTHING!" 

The entire realm began to shake from the massive surges of godly strength and cosmo fluctations and Siegfried moved back defensively. Baldur suddenly was right in front of Siegfried. Siegfried quickly moved to protect his weak point as Baldur punched him once sending him all the way to icy Niflheim, where he found himself imbeded in ice. Melting it's atoms quickly he leapt up onto the ice where Baldur landed right near him, grabbing him and tossing him as a ragdoll.

"I saw your little guard stance....Protecting something hahahaha? Maybe I should thank you for freeing me...." Baldur punched the ground and a mighty shockwave sent Siegfried flying almost impaling his weak point on a nearby ice mountain. 

"on the other hand, it's been FAR too long since I was able to have a REAL fight."

Siegfried rallied himself and burned his cosmo, feeling his energy strength massively, knowing he needed to end this quickly, but as he went for a lunge on his enemy, he found Baldur suddenly to the side, Baldur being able to feel his cosmo now. Baldur gave Siegfried a few quick punches, and Siegfried found himself flung into Midgard again, into water.

Siegfried swam out only to see Asgard in the distance and it filled him with determination.

Baldur appeared near, just his landing causing a shockwave shaking the planet. Siegfried could see in the distance part of Asgard begin to collapse.

"No...NO!" Siegfried yelled and felt his cosmo burn higher then ever before. The two charged each other, Siegfried's anger allowing him to equal Baldur, the two's fists connecting and the ground caved way beneath them, cratering as they pushed against each other's strength. 

The two disengaged and re-engaged throwing blow after blow at each other, Baldur's skin began to bleed..."oh what a wonderful feeling!" he thought, Siegfried felt his cloth indent and begin to break, his weak point exposed and scratched. 

Baldur felt the atoms all around him...how intoxicating it was....he willed them to slow, and Siegfried felt them freezing around him. Baldur went to finish him with a mighty roar and lunge and Siegfried willed the atoms to speed up and so they melted quickly,, his opponent mid-lunge Siegfried rapidly called out "Odin's Sword!" pointing at the ground around him, facing his side to the ground, so the wave of force did not his weak spot but did capture his lunging enemy.

 The two were thrust upwards with such force as to launch them into the void. Baldur could feel his arm dislocated from the sudden force and shock and knew he needed to win now, and stop messing around. 

As the two fell they became encased in a wall of heat from the friction as Siegfried grabbed Baldur's good hand, grappling it and struck his undefended torso with his off hand. Baldur angled downwards, spinning in midair, catapulting Siegfried into a nearby icesheet, which melted upon impact.

Siegfried burst above the water and saw Baldur slam his arm down, sending an icy-light shockwave at him. Siegfried held out his arm, reflecting the icy-light shockwave back.

Baldur hadn't been expected that and was suddenly blinded for a moment. Siegfried leapt at the chance and hurled himself at the enemy. Baldur regained his sight and the last thing he could see was Siegfried's fist slamming into his head, as a deafening CRUNCH came and Baldur's neck was snapped, his head turned completely around.

Siegfried slumped back exhausted, and nearly dead himself. He knew he would need to help with the reconstruction of Asgard.









K.O.

I'm gonna be the honest, this was one of the closest matchups I've ever done and could easily have gone either way. 

First off while Siegfried yes could attack intangible things like curses and could thus potentially have attacked the curse of invulnerability on Baldur himself, Rage Kratos did not break Baldur's curse despite him also being able to break the laws of reality and attack intangibles.

The two seemed relatively even in terms of raw power and speed, with Baldur having a slight edge in both, due to a greater degree casualness. However for the most part Baldur's power level would remain static over the course of the battle while Siegfried's could rise to match the new threat especially if his homeland was endangered. That means that Baldur would have an advantage due to stats early on but as the fight went on it would slowly turn in Siegfried's favor.

Also while it's perfectly possible Baldur could absorb Siegfried's cosmo like he did fire and ice, Cosmo is something that takes a lot of training to learn how to use proficiently, on the general level of many years. While it might give him chaotic boosts due to how sensation filled he would be, it would be uncontrollable and not something to rely on.

Siegfried's skin couldn't be broken so you'd think Baldur's grappling style and freezing abilities would be just the thing to slow him down right? Well not exactly. Baldur never had his freezing and invulnerability abilities at the same time and even if he did, being able to prevent freezing is common with cosmo as it just involves speeding up the atoms again. To freeze a Gold Saint level entity requires colds of absolute zero which Baldur had never produced. And while Baldur could try grappling, Siegfried could knock him back by producing waves of cosmo like he did to Dragon Shiryu. Meanwhile while it would take multiple hits, especially at first, it is possible for Siegfried to temporarily disable Baldur's limbs or at least slow him down.

There is no evidence so far for a God of War version of Siegfried, meaning Baldur would be unlikely to know of Siegfried's weakness. Meanwhile Siegfried, educated in norse myths, would certainly know Baldur and his weakness to mistletoe, and at their level of speed finding some is not a problem. 

Also while both have ranged attacks, and Baldur's are faster then Siegfried's, Baldurs are prone to getting reflected by Siegfried's cosmo abilities while the inverse is not likely to happen.

While Baldur could certainly overwhelm Siegfried in the short run, it seems in the long run Siegfried just had the knowledge, arsenal and capacity to rise in power to counter his options.

The winner is....Dubhe Alpha Siegfried


Next Time: 



Thanks to my friend Thor for providing the next time trailer and soundtrack to this fight. Thank you to DarkLordDragon on the OBD for providing much of my Saint Seiya guidance and Steve Charlemene on Blogger for providing much of my God of War guidance. 

15 comments:

  1. HOLY ALLFATHER IN VALHALA, that was Absolutely Goddamn AWESOME. Norse Myth is just so freaking cool and inspired SO many things that I love, now Including this. Like when these two faced off i actually got Goosebumps in anticipation. These are two verses that really KNOW how to be OP, they just have so much cool lore including tons of stuff i didn't know that is freaking CRAZY and awesome and i am Glad to know it. The fight was massively, Massively complex. its kinda like a mid way between Jedah VS Lucemon and Rorschach VS V in terms of how hard they are to bring down and thats perfect, both have clear ways to kill each other but its still Crazy difficult. The fight Scene was Legit by all accounts a Norse Epic, like change all the stuff that actually connects it to SS and GOW and this could full me...and honestly would be one of my fave Norse Epics cause these two are fighting across all the realms, making rainbow bridges, and making black holes and shit that was Incredible!! and in the end...I Called it :P but no seriously I'm glad Siggy won...he was the more noble warrior, but by god was Baldur a great villain, and you did them both SO IN character it felt real...I LEGIT think i understood the characters more from the fight scenes writing than their personality descriptions and i love that too.

    Excited for Star!!!

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  2. I'm not gonna bother containing my SS hype. A SAINT SEIYA FIGHT! MY FAVORITE GOD WARRIOR! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
    And the fight is so close! Surprisingly close! When I was reading those amazing speed feats you calculated for Baldur, I thought he had a major advantage but things turned out so much closer than I expected.

    I knew almost nothing about Baldur going into this but now I love both these dudes, not just Siegfried. So strong for a scrawny lil guy! I love how this is a no-holds-barred throwdown between two very tough, fairly straightforward fellas. Their kits seem pretty simple but you managed to cook up a riveting battle. Spoilers for anyone who hasn't read the blog yet (go read it now!). That moment when Baldur absorbed Cosmos and started to use it...that shocked me to the core. I thought there was no chance after that but my boy pulled it off! Good thing he studied his legends ;)

    I agree with what you said in your verdict; this really could've gone either way. I feel like given the incredible durability of both combatants, the fight's more likely to be longer than shorter, which pushes the advantage over to Siegfried just barely. Your fights consistently put me on the edge of my seat, holding my breath and for that, I thank you. Big shoutout to Thor too, that score was epic!

    Speaking of Thor, trailer hype! He's got me excited for your next blog because it's a character I've gotten more interested in lately. I only know Starfire from the Teen Titans cartoon, and you being a comics guru, I'm feeling I'm gonna learn a lot more about her!

    Thanks again for doing a Saint Seiya fight, these are the sorta fights I look forward to most of all! Didn't even know how much I wanted this specific matchup before you came along and made it, way to go! You seriously need a team of professional animators :P

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  3. That was freaking epic, I assumed that Siegfried would win, just because I have heard and seen some pretty crazy stuff for Saint Seiya, but my boy Baldur did better than I thought he would and it was far closer than I expected.

    It's interesting to see that Baldur had the speed advantage, which I wasn't expecting, but I was thinking that since characters in Saint Seiya seem to have a lot of hax that Siegfried would find a way to win, which he did. Although, the speed difference didn't seem to matter as much as I would have thought, considering it looks like Baldur would have been a good deal faster, but they were able to fight pretty evenly.

    If I'm honest I was really surprised when Baldur started using Cosmos, as I wouldn't have thought him capable, but it makes some sense due to him doing similar in the game.

    I liked this fight a lot, but what do you think the split would be in odds of Siegfried, I'm thinking something like 52 to 48 in favor of Siegfried. Also, do you think that Siegfried would be able to beat stronger GoW characters than Baldur, like GoW 3 Kratos or Zeus, or would those two be too strong? I feel like he would maybe have a chance solely because he wouldn't really be hurt unless they hit him in his weak spot, but they can still feel pain and be hurt. Although, I think he would lose to Fear Zeus and Hope Kratos, although he can hit intangibles and I think abstracts so you never know.

    Also, just out of curiosity what are the speed calcs for the non low-balled versions of each characters speed? If you feel like doing them that is.

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    Replies
    1. Hey, really glad you liked it! :)

      The speed was tricky as the Fates speed feat was "only" about a single order of magnitude above Shura's Big Bang feat. And Siegfried blitzed a character who was briefly on par with Saga, who even without his cloth (READ: Most of his power) could blitz a mid tier gold saint like Shura. Granted I think GOW4 Kratos is probably stronger (And faster) then Fates fight Kratos from GOW2 but they seemed roughly in the same range. Doing my best to compare, it seemed Baldur was at a bit of an edge initially but Siegfried could outclass him overtime as Cosmo users can rise in power over the course of a fight.

      It seemed like an interesting possibility for Baldur to absorb cosmo and thematically it was just too hard to not do, as Baldur's character is defined by how he has spent a century without any sensation while cosmo connects one to the sensation of the entire universe, feeling the atoms flow through you and your surroundings. It was such a perfect thematic moment I had to play with it :P

      The exact odds are a bit tricky, it depends on mindset and location and such. 52/48 sounds like a perfectly reasonable estimate to me though.

      I definitely don't think Siegfried could beat Fear Zeus and Hope Kratos. They scale to Polygon Man who could merge and control dozens of universes at once. The big feat of Hades, who is 2-3 tiers above Siegfried in Saint Seiya, is maintaining the existence of 3 universes. In terms of raw power Siegfried would be very outclassed by them. Siegfried might be able to get a little stronger but at best I can only see him about on par with the lower tier "High 6" Olympian Gods, IE Athena, Ares and Helios.

      I didn't really do a calc for the non-lowballed version, most because it would require assumptions that I don't know to get a reasonable value for. The God of War Earth is probably the biggest low-ball though as it's a massive earth where an entire desert far larger then the enormous Kronos can still lie to the East of Athens and fit on the Greek penninsula. It's also though a disc so it's a bit tricky to find a reasonable value to use. Using RL Earth is a low-ball but it's seemingly a reasonable one imo.

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    2. For the Fates thing, did you take into account that all three Sisters are that fast individually, because Kratos did fight 2 at the same time, I assume you did, but you never know.

      Oh, I had no problem with Baldur absorbing cosmos, I thought it was awesome in fact, was just surprised that he could, but you are right it's very poetic that he absorbs a power that allows him to feel things around him better than he used to.

      Ah, okay, I suppose I got a little overzealous, was just curious as to who he could fight, which Titans do you think he could beat?

      Well for the GoW Earth, looking back at your analysis of Kratos you talked about how the GoW world is 201,000 times the diameter of Earth, so maybe that can help in some way, but would probably still lead to vague answers. I was talking more about the creatures the Fates micromanage though, like how fast they would be to control bacteria and the like, which I honestly think they do, since they control literally everything else.

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    3. Kratos didn't seem particularly faster then the Fates in their encounter. The fact that he fought 2 at once is more indicative of his skill then a clear speed advantage over them.

      Not really sure. Perses was able to nigh-tank the power of Helios which means Siegfried's base strikes would probably do nothing. That said Siegfried's hax and ability to rise in power might give him an edge against most of them.

      It's hard because again I don't know to get any reasonable values to estimate for a calc of that. Sorry.

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    4. Well, he does sort of blitz them near the end of each of their individual fights, and is then able to get out of the way of Lahkesis when he is held in place by Atropos, so I'd say he is at least a little faster, but probably not by much since he doesn't blitz both of them at the same time. So probably not enough to matter.

      Alright, was just curious.

      Yeah, I was trying and I don't really know how to get reasonable calcs, but for the bacteria I looked it up and found an estimate of 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. This is likely not extremely accurate as it's nearly impossible to know just how much there actually is, but this did account for bacteria in the ocean, creatures, and even 40 miles into the atmosphere. However assuming this was even kind of accurate it's a massive low-ball compared to how many would be in the GoW universe due to how much bigger it is, but is probably the only semi feasible way to include bacteria.

      Also, what would you say for strength exactly? Like, how much could Baldur or Kratos lift, because I know Hyperion had a Spear with the weight of the cosmos behind it, and the World Pillar supported the cosmos as well as the earth, but Atlas does so now, so would both be close to that or higher? I know prime Kratos would be higher as he was stronger than Atlas, but it gets kind of confusing with things this massive or heavy. Also, is that poor Titan still supporting the Pillar, because if so he's probably lonely.

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    5. not really sure how large their lifting strength would be...I mean at the very least they probably scale to Kratos lifitng the Colossus of Rhodes and throwing it near the start of GOW2

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    6. Yeah, they are definitely stronger than that, the bridge that Kratos moves was twice the weight of the Golden Gate Bridge in the new game, as confirmed by Cory, and that wasn't including him moving it through water and wind resistance, and in the book it explains that he not only moves it, but lifts it up completely in order to put it back on track properly.

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    7. Also, is it possible to calc the speed for the Fates now, with that added number for the bacteria, because if so I'd imagine it would be an absolutely stupidly high number, as it was already very high.

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    8. Probably wouldn't actually be much higher, as the smallest bacteria is only about 9 times smaller then Mxyobolus Shekel. Like I said I don't think the two are vastly different in speed especially considering how Siegfried blitzed a character who was equal to another character while weaker that in a highly weak state blitzed a comparable character to the one with the septillions feat.

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    9. Alright, if you don't think it would be much higher that's cool, I just thought it would be, considering how much bacteria there is. Question though, which characters in GoW would have the infinite speed burst or reaction time speed, since even GoW 1 Kratos had the Hermes stomp and he was way weaker than GoW 2 Kratos and in turn Baldur, or is that reserved more for the higher ups, genuinely curious because I don't know when it would be used.

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    10. it's tricky because the only people it's confirmed be are Hermes, Atropos Projection Speed (ie the image of her astral projection) and GOW 1 Kratos burst speed (IE short distance speed) and while Baldur is faster then Kratos in general, Kratos in a Full Rage was never blitzed or outpaced by Baldur. To scale to that I would have to somehow scale to any of those 3. Kratos Burst Speed is most likely.

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    11. Alright, cool, sorry for not responding earlier, been busy.

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  4. I think I enjoyed this battle more than I thought I would. Great job Imp! I wouldn't have thought that a battle between a God of War and Saint Seiya character would have worked so well, but now I love this matchup. I am not well versed in either series, but you made both of these characters sound really cool. I love how Norse myth is integrated into their lore.

    I always love how you go over in detail the methodology behind the calculations of their stats. The God of War speed feats especially were very well explained especially since you have deduce how fast certain feats are from just lore statements. I was pretty impressed. I also appreciate you going over the canon of the series in the previous blog.

    The fight felt huge and epic. I love how led to them fighting outside the worlds in the area of the World Tree. My favorite part has got to be in the middle when Baldur absorbed Siegfried's Cosmo which surprised them both. The reasoning behind the winner also seemed solid from what I can tell.

    So in short, this blog has excellent research and a good fight. Music was great as always and it should be fun to read about Starfire for the next time.

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