Hi, I'm here to talk today about the only Death Battle in the world I don't want to happen. Sailor Moon vs Madoka Kaname. There are many Death Battles I wouldn't care but this is the sole one I actively don't want to happen. If it's already in development then oh well, and I'm under no illusion many people will care about this, but I am still going to make the case anyway.
The Biggest Reason: The False Premise
The biggest reason by far I don't want this matchup is it represents a false premise I've been kinda fighting against since I was a child.
So the reason people want this matchup and far as I can tell the only big reason is the notion that Sailor Moon represents "Classic" Magical Girls and Madoka represents "New" Magical Girls. Or they think Madoka is outright a deconstruction. I wanna explain why I hate this notion.
When I was growing up it was not cool to like girly stuff. I've always been a big fan of Magical Girls, I've always been trying to tell people they're actually really cool and well made series and can be dark, and badass as well as cute and funny and heartfelt and everything you'd want a series to be. But it's never been cool to like it. Some of the other girls liked it, but liking boy stuff as a girl made you cool. Liking girl stuff as a boy made you a target of mild ridicule. Even as adults I still see grown men balking at the notion of watching stuff made for women which to me is just... so sad.
So then Madoka comes along and it's a magical girl series that gets a LOT of praise writ large. The Otaku community in general loves it. However an idea floats around that it's not really a Magical Girl Series, it's a Magical Girl DECONSTRUCTION, it's dark and edgy. You know unlike those lame prior Magical Girls. Those were all frilly girly nonsense.
*Sigh* This notion is insulting to both Magical Priors and to Madoka for claiming that it is great only because it subverts those notions. The truth is Madoka isn't that different in content then prior Magical Girl Series. The Sailor Moon Manga includes more graphic deaths then seen in Madoka, it contains suicide, biological gas weapons being used to kill a civilian population, themes of existential dread, and more. The reason Madoka is great is not because it's different from other Magical Girls but because executes what makes Magical Girls as a genre great.
I care about the Magical Girl genre a lot. It depends how you count but I've seen roughly 100 Magical Girl Series. The truth is the Magical Girl genre is a complex evolving genre that contains a wide variety of themes and atmospheres. Sailor Moon itself was a pretty radical break from the genre conventions prior to it. If Sailor Moon vs Madoka comes out, especially if it plays into the "Magical Girl vs Magical Girl Deconstruction" then it's going reinforce the false notion that prior Magical Girls to Madoka were "different." That there were frilly girly nonsense that only girls enjoy. Of course it could avoid playing into that but that would expose how.... little else the matchup has going for it.
Connections:
Frankly there aren't many. There's very little hook to these other then they are both Magical Girls and I guess very powerful very good people. This is not great. Within the Magical Girl genre the two don't have that much connection.
Obviously there is SOME, almost every Magical Girl post-SM has some Sailor Moon influence but Madoka's artistic predecessors are things like Lyrical Nanoha, Princess Tutu, and Uta Kata, and mostly traces back to the Cardcaptor Sakura side of the genre. The connections that exist are either things derived from the fact that they are both Magical Girls or that they are both very powerful. To say that's a good amount of connections is I think kind of insulting to the Magical Girl genre because it is basically saying "yeah we don't need to learn about more about the genre, we can just do two of its most well known characters." The worse part is still the connections that aren't there but people think are there. In particular the idea that it's the Classic Magical Girl vs the Magical Girl Deconstruction.
From Sailor Moon's Side:
This fight is a terrible one to waste Sailor Moon on. Sailor Moon is my favorite character of all time. She has alot of personality, a huge arsenal, some really iconic and cool moves she can do. And Madoka doesn't really connect with ANY of it.
Sailor Moon is a really fun personality to write because she's has a lot of character flaws but also through love can rise to being a heroine who can give lines about love and justice like a Western Superhero, AND has a huge amount of emotional depth especially by the end of the series where she comments about things like how we all have a star in our heart that seeks to join together. She can be so much, she can be fun, she can be cool, she can be emotional. And Madoka naturally triggers... like none of it. Madoka is a somewhat shy and reserved personality. She's not going to scare Usagi into any kind of comedic scene. She's not going to argue about philosophy with her that will trigger Usagi's heroic side. I am sure they'd be friends if they met because they're both really sweet girls, and I daresay Usagi might help bring Madoka out of her shell a little, but in a fight situation I can't see any interesting personality dynamic come out.
Fight wise it is the same problem. Usagi has a lot of powers, even prior to the Lambda Power. She can do so much and... I mean Madoka just doesn't trigger any of it. This is SUCH a waste of Usagi both personality wise and powerwise. The Moon Tiara Throw is arguably one of the more iconic moves in anime and it couldn't be used because Madoka's a concept. I'll get to evenness in a bit, but recognize that almost none of Sailor Moon's powers, including the ones people associate with her, would come up in this fight. This only gets worse if you include more then just the Manga for Sailor Moon because Comp Sailor Moon has so, SO much content.
And finally Sailor Moon would have to be taken way out of character for this. Sailor Moon represents very literally Love at the end of her story. She doesn't have any reason to fight Madoka. Bear in mind that at the end of the story, she tried to embrace Chaos rather then kill it. CHAOS. An evil concept. There is no way to try and have her kill Chaos and have it be in character, and I get this is going to be a problem with almost any Usagi matchup but it's especially clear given what Madoka represents.
Sailor Moon also has way better matchups. I think Sailor Moon vs Sakura and Sailor Moon vs Seiya are both great matchup ideas and work in every way that this idea doesn't. and I have hard that Sailor Moon vs Sora works well too though I don't know the latter well enough to comment.
From Puella Magi's Side:
From Puella Magi's Side, Madoka is the worst of the Holy Quintet to use in a "Death Battle" like scenario. Mami is my favorite of the Holy Quintet and one of my favorite blogs was Mami Tomoe vs Panty Anarchy. Kyoko and Sayaka are both very beloved characters and Homura... Homura is easily the most popular and iconic Magical Girl of the 2010s and up there as one of the most popular and iconic of all time. Madoka herself isn't as popular a character as the others and also we barely see her fight anything, regardless of form.
Madoka in general I don't think is a character very well suited to Death Battle for several reasons. First of all her personality is not a big flashy one that makes for a lot of fun dynamics. Her powerset is hypothetically large but we don't know what she'd do with it in a fight because we don't really see her fight. She just one shots some enemies with her arrows. This makes her difficult to find a good matchup for. That said Sailor Moon is NOT it.
Madoka wants Magical Girls to get along. Madoka saves Magical Girls. That is the entire point of her character at the end, that Madoka is a concept that saves Magical Girls from falling into despair. I'll get into thematic stuff later but Madoka would be horrified to having to try and kill another Magical Girl. There is no way to do this and have it be in character for Madoka. This is also not accounting for the fact that Madoka is supposed to only fight witches, which Sailor Moon is not.
We don't know how Madoka would fight, she is not the type to fight almost any character ESPECIALLY other Magical Girls, and her personality doesn't tend to create fun dynamics. She's a hard character to find matchups for in general and Sailor Moon has anti-synergy with her.
Evenness/Interestingness:
You know what I've never heard anyone say about this matchup, that it's a close, even fight. That it's fair. That it could go either way. Even if people disagree on which direction, people take this matchup as a stomp. I don't wanna have to listen to several weeks of "Madoka stomps" from people if this matchup is announced, and even if Death Battle gives the hot take that Usagi wins, what's going to come of that but people being angry at Sailor Moon, the character, the series, and people who support it? Even if that is correct, I can't see it going well.
Maybe more important then evenness is interestingness. A fight can be uneven but still interesting to watch/think about, and it can be very even but very boring (average human vs average human) so is the matchup interesting? No, it's really not. It's just do you think that the Lambda Power burst Usagi made at the end of the Sailor Moon Manga is strong enough to kill Kami Madoka. That's a Yes or No Question, and basically just Cosmology Scaling, the worst and most boring part of powerscaling imo. Most of Sailor Moon's arsenal wouldn't come up here which is really really lame to me.
Better Matchups:
Sailor Moon definitely does. I think Sailor Moon vs Sakura or Sailor Moon vs Seiya would both be great matchups and I hear Sailor Moon vs Sora definitely does. Sailor Moon vs Sakura is a nostalgic matchup of the original Magical Girl Rivalry, that's interesting, fair, and actually allows both to use a wide amount of their arsenal as well as hopefully gets people to think about vs matches differently when they realize it's not just big number hit hard. Sailor Moon vs Seiya is a pretty reasonable debated matchup in the vs community, has pretty clean thematic connections, the two fight similarly, have similar power and hax levels, and unlike the MG fights, it's easy to see how they'd fight. I also hear Sailor Moon vs Sora is a decent one, albeit don't know KH well enough to comment.
Madoka is hard to find matchups for in general just due to how specific her fight conditions are and the lack of info we have on her. That said Sailor Moon has anti-synergy due to Sailor Moon being a Magical Girl, someone Madoka would very much NOT want to hurt. I hear the Princess from Slay the Princess would be a good one since they have more parallels, a more interesting debate, and the Princess is even a Witch, sorta.
That said genuinely I would prefer literally any matchup more then this. I'd prefer Sailor Moon vs Shrek because that wouldn't promote the false dichotomy I've struggled with.
Possible Meta Problems:
So Madoka is getting new content soon and also has some debate as to how strong it is currently. Sailor Moons is also in a conflux of being contested for upgrades constantly. The latter from what I understand caused Beerus vs Galaxia to become outdated as most forums have Galaxia at "immeasurable" speed going by powerscaling or "immeasurable combat speed" or what have you. This is just a general problem with doing Sailor Moon characters as there is currently a push for them to be upgraded in the common consensus.
Also Sailor Moon pretty infamously caused one episode to get taken down by Toei. This probably wouldn't happen again since Toei seems less trigger-happy nowadays but it is a minor problem with Sailor Moon Death Battles in general.
Does it have anything going for it?
Its best quality is probably the amount of views and ratings it would get, particularly if it gives the majority opinion rather then a hot take. It would get I think decent views. Sailor Moon is the only Shojo with a reasonable amount of powerscaling interest outside MAYBE PreCure. If we imagine S, A, B, C, D, and F tier verses in terms of powerscaling interest Sailor Moon is probably like a B (S would be something like Dragon Ball, A would be something like One Piece, B would be something like Saint Seiya for comparison.) That might be me being generous but still, it's maybe the only Shojo that by itself can probably pull in some views for something like this. And to my chagrin this matchup does have at least some popularity, it would pull in some views.
If you're going that route though I would still suggest Sailor Moon vs Pegasus Seiya over it. Saint Seiya has probably more scaling interest then Madoka does, and is an S Tier Anime in popularity in places like Latin America. I don't know the extent to which Death Battle is popular there, but Sailor Moon vs Pegasus Seiya would have vastly more interest there and probably comparable in English Speaking areas. It's also a decently well debated matchup, and one that has a lot more benefits to it. Of course my most wanted matchup is Usagi vs Sakura but I fully accept that wouldn't pull in nearly the ratings as Clamp in general doesn't have a lot of powerscaling interest.
Symbolic Stuff:
It's possible no one really cares but I do truly feel that both for me and at least a substantial amount of people the fact that a fight has some meaning to it, that there something expressed about the the world or humanity or just the two characters involved means something. Magical Girls are figures that are more then ink on paper or code in a computer. They are representations of idealized femininity, of the hopes and dreams of society embodied in the newest generation of young women. These two series both mean a lot ot me and while both have myriad reasons why someone might love them, if I was to summarize at least one of the core appeals for these two characters I'd say the following:
Sailor Moon when it came out told its audience "you can be the hero." It doesn't matter if you're not what people think of when they think of the hero, even if you are scared, sensitive, a normal teenage girl you can be the hero the saves everyone. Sailor Moon is fundamentally a story about how love can ennoble us, can allow a normal girl to create miracles.
Puella Magi Madoka Magica when it came out told its audience that it may very well be true that the world is messed up. That you're told lies about what heroism and femininity mean, that the system wants to exploit you for maximal gain. But that if your ideals and your heart are strong enough you can remake the entire broken system. It told its audience that no matter how hard the world seemed, that people were always fighting for you and that you didn't have to accept that suffering in this system was inevitable.
There isn't a natural connection point between these two. There isn't an underlying conflict or similarity between them that creates something evocative. With something like Usagi vs Sakura there is an underlying philosophical difference about the nature of love and hope. With Usagi vs Seiya there is an underlying similarity in that a person's capacity to grow is a fundamental theme in both series. With Usagi vs Madoka there isn't an obvious connection point between their themes. Could a good writer connect them? Sure they're obviously not incompatible but it's worth noting that it's not an easy gel.
More then that however capturing the spirit of Magical Girls is something that seems hard for powerscalers and in particular the current axioms of powerscaling high tier characters. The current way people think about powerscaling is that when it comes to high tier characters, it's all about power, that hax and abilities doesn't work based on power. I have been in this community long enough to see this transformation and outside of general toxicity it my least favorite thing about powerscaling. I don't think it makes sense, and I think it makes things very boring as it makes everything univariable. It's also something I feel is actually contrary to the spirit of magical girls.
In Sailor Moon Galaxia cares about power above all else. She believes that it is only power that matters. Galaxia destroys worlds for not containing the perfect existence. To me powerscalers who think this way are following in Galaxia's spirit. It is a destructive way of thinking, a way that eradicates worlds of possibility, limiting everything down to big boom. If you think a fight between two magical girls on the level of these two would be decided by who hits harder, I feel you are not only wrong but fundamentally missing the heart of the genre. It is a core tenet of the genre that force and violence are overcome by love and compassion. I am not saying that scaling Magical Girls should be different. I am saying that the current axioms of high tier vs debating that reduce fights to a single variable are fundamentally misguided and this is reflected I think in how poorly trying to apply Dragon Ball Rules to something like Magical Girl fights goes. A Magical Girl fight, if it's going to express truly the spirit of the genre, should evoke something more, something about what they represent. I know Death Battle has over the years grown up, moved away from being edgy teenage boy level to actually trying to analyze the characters and express things. I am saying that if you want to do that, Usagi vs Madoka especially analyzed the way that a lot of powescalers do these days off Dragon Ball rules, won't capture the spirit of either character or either series.
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