The Difference between Marvel and DC

 

Note: This is NOT an attempt to say one side is better or anything. I am very un-tribalistic in general and really don’t care to snipe at series I don’t like. And it’s not like I dislike either of these two, though I would be very obviously lying if I didn’t claim to favoring one by far. Hopefully that will not bias me to the point I can’t answer the question.

I was asked a few times why DC is one of my favorite series ever and Marvel I’m only ambivalent towards. I don’t think that’s a trivial question, as on the surface the two seem relatively similar. There’s something different about DC and Marvel. If I compare their best stories, broadly speaking on the same level of quality, or if I compare their worst stories, which again broadly speaking I would say are on the same level of quality, there still feels something different about the two. I wanted to try and identify what is different about the two series. 

A lot of people say it’s because some variation of Marvel being about humans, and DC being about gods, and I have to disagree with this assessment. At best it seems an over-simplification that leaves out important details and at worst it seems misleading as it suggests that the difference is so simple, and that someone only a fan of one would be so because of that reason. That said the actual reason is somewhat hard for me to articulate, and what I’m writing now might only be a vague approximation of the truth of the matter but hopefully it shall be helpful.

The first that sort of really caught my attention is their usage of mythology. Thor, the actual Norse deity, is one of the primary heroes of the Marvel Universe and in general Norse mythology is more closely entwined with the series then the more commonly used Greco-Roman mythology. In contrast in the DC Universe, Wonder Woman, one of the primary heroes gets her powers from the Greek gods, as does Shazam. Superman is called the “modern Hercules” and the first flash had the “speed of Mercury”.

Now obviously both DC and Marvel have expanded to have both Norse and Greco-Roman mythology in their complete roster, however they put different mythologies, very different mythologies at the forefront of their series. That suggests a particular affinity, although whether the presence of these characters at the forefront influenced the series, or they were pushed to the forefront because of their affinity with it, or there was some kind of feedback loop incorporating both etc. is unknown.

If you look into Greek Mythology one of the things that will be noticed very quickly is their deities were often embodiments of a domain of the natural world. Ares was not just a being associated with war, he was war itself, being wherever war was, and everything that was war was him. Thanatos was death itself and when he was bound, so was death stopped everywhere. Poseidon was not just the lord of the sea, he was the sea itself. The Roman Deities were somewhat more abstracted, being more often the embodiments of virtues rather than natural phenomenon but were similar in that they WERE their domains. The Lares, for instance were the ancestral gods of each family representing the familiar virtues of the household. 

This was absolutely not the case for the Norse Gods. Odin was the god of warfare and wisdom, yet he was neither war itself (in fact he rarely was on the field of battle, for he sent Valkyries to bring up the fallen), nor was he wisdom itself (as he had to sacrifice his eye to gain more wisdom). He was a being that had control over those domains. Freya was a goddess of war, as well as a goddess of love, beauty and fertility. Yet she wasn’t any of those domains itself. Loki was a god associated with trickery, deception and fire, yet when he was chained below those things didn’t disappear from the world. In fact there is a myth where Loki is challenged to an eating contest and loses because while he ate his half at the same time as his opponent, his opponent was actually Fire itself and burned all the food and the bones to nothing (the same myth contains many such challenges where the Norse Gods struggled because they were secretly put into competition with abstract concepts like Thor trying to wrestle an old woman who was secretly old age itself). This is taken to its metaphorical extreme in how, unlike the Greco-Roman deities, the Norse Deities are actually fated to and can die.

Why I find this interesting is that this is also how Marvel and DC depict their literal gods (though not all their cosmic entities). The Marvel Deities are physical entities existing on some physical world far off in the cosmos. If you had a sufficiently faster than light spaceship one could fly to Marvel Asgard just as they use the bifrost to travel easily between such worlds. Conversely in the DC universe the Gods are abstractions existing in the sphere of the gods, and not even running past the speedforce barrier can get you there. 

Symbolically, note how Marvel takes place in settings closer to our own, with cities like New York. Conversely DC primarily exists in imaginary lands meant more as representations; Metropolis, Gotham, Themiscyra. This builds to my thesis on the difference between the two; Marvel Comics focuses on the characters as hypothetical people primarily while DC Comcis focuses on the characters as archetypes embodied. Marvel Comics is realist (focusing on the real) while DC Comics is idealist (focusing on the idea). I should reiterate that neither is better or more valid then the other and both companies have made great stories and terrible stories. 

Scott McCloud in Making Comics divides comic creators and writers into 4 camps (though he and I both emphasize that these are not strictly defined lines, people have a bit of all and change their proportions over time, this merely is a denotation of tendencies), based on two metrics; an emphasis on the artistic tradition and on artistic revolution or subversion and art as art or art as simulation for reality. That leads to these 4 positions.

Classicists: Artistically Traditional and Art as Art: Those that seek the transcendant beauty of art beyond mundane life, the experience beyond reality. 

Animist: Artistically Traditional and Art as Simulation of Life: Trying to create something lively and full of heart, putting content (character and story) before anything else

Iconoclast: Artistically Revolutionary and Art as Simulation of Life: Trying to seek out truth and honesty, regardless of how ugly it is, in art

Formalist: Artistically Revolutionary and Art as Art: Those who like to experiment with the medium’s form and style, pushing what the medium is capable off as a medium.

While the distinction between the artistically traditional and artistically revolutionary is not wholly important here, as both Marvel and DC have had traditional and revolutionary periods (though Marvel arguably more towards the revolutionary and DC towards the traditional as Marvel first gained popularity by acting in subversion to DC’s traditions), it is the second one that I feel is the heart of Marvel and DC’s differences.

DC focuses primarily on art as art while Marvel primarily focuses on art as simulation of life. What makes this really sort of stick with me is the Formalists. Marvel has a few characters prominently that break the fourth wall, most notably Deadpool but in terms of actual experimentation with the medium itself, that is a huge part of DC’s upper echelon. The Monitors, the Endless even the Presence to some extent are textualized as metafictional and this has only been more noticeable overtime with things like The Gentry. DC is far more interested in metafictionality then Marvel is it seems, which would make sense with the division I suggested as Formalism is an Art as Art philosophy.

This also is attractive to me to be honest because it explains my own tendencies. I am a Classist (with admittingly some Animist tendencies) and I feel like this explains my own resonance towards DC. I very much like the idea of characters as symbols and concepts abstracted because I seek that kind of transcendent experience.

I have made the analogy before that Marvel at its best is like Shakespeare and DC at its best is like Dante. It was said by T.S. Eliot the world is divided between Shakespeare and Dante, there is no third. Shakespeare had an incredible ability to capture the human psyche in his writing, to capture the drama and the human experience in all its painful nuances. Dante on the other hand had an almost supernatural ability to see a reality deeper and fuller then the human reality, and to relate man with the rest of the cosmos. That’s how I see Marvel and DC at their best. 

If I was to try and sum up the difference between Marvel and DC in a simple way I would say:

Marvel wants to ILLUMINATE the human experience

DC wants to TRANSCEND the human experience

Could Sailor Saturn have stopped Sailor Galaxia

There is a common misconception about the last arc of Sailor Moon that Sailor Galaxia killed Sailor Saturn. However while that battle was VERY close to happening, it never actually happened. What really happened was Hotaru sensed her adopted mother Setsuna being attacked by Galaxia and flew off in a rush to help her, not even transforming, only to fly accidentally in the path of Galaxia's Star Seed Steal. 

What if an alternate reality occurred. Hotaru had transformed into Eternal Sailor Saturn before flying to Charon Castle orbiting Pluto, only to see firsthand Galaxia killing her adopted mother Sailor Pluto.

Before we figure out what would have happened let me give a quick introduction to the two fighters.

Sailor Galaxia is the Sailor Senshi of Destruction and Solitude. She is the bearer of the Saphr Crystal, the ultimate force of destruction, able to reduce things in existence back to it's primordial star seed. She is feared throughout the galaxy as the Golden Queen. Her coming heralds destruction. Merely her appearing on a planet can turn it into a barren wasteland only Sailor Senshi can survive. It is noted that the planets under her control are worlds of death where neither the living or the dead can maintain. 

Galaxia's primary attacks are Galactica Inflation, creating an aura of dark lightning around her strong enough to equal Eternal Sailor Moon's strongest attack and the even stronger Galactica Superstring creating a wave of cosmic energy powerful to threaten even Eternal Sailor Moon, which is highly impressive given the Silver Crystal of Sailor Moon is a crystal that protects and preserves, the ultimate force of life. Her ultimate attack is her most famous. By pointing at something, she can steal it's star seed, reducing it to nothing. She can do this to many entities at once, even to whole worlds. 

Beyond this Galaxia has more powers. Her power warps the spacetime continuum and can erase a future. She can hear thoughts, even so far as to hear Usagi's thought from thousands of lightyears away. She has enhanced senses, can attack the mind of her foe in their dreams, and can manipulate the star seeds in her control to recreate entities as loyal to her. 

Sailor Saturn is the Soldier of Death and Rebirth. She appears when a Chaos-Spawn would threaten the universe and resets all life to zero, such that she is referred to as the Messiah of Darkness. She is primarily a spirit, the Saturn Spirit which can incarnate a body and a soul in a time. In the Modern Era she incarnated as Hotaru Tomoe and joined with the Senshi of the Solar System. The Saturn Spirit can incarnate a new body and soul at any time, and Saturn can fight normally as merely a soul. 

Saturn wields the Silence Glaive, the scythe of death which paralyzes and harmed even Pharaoh 90 which absorbs all energy and matter. With it she can cast Death Reborn Revolution which creates dark tendrils that paralyze and draw things to be crushed inside her negative aura. However her ultimate ability is the Silence, where she lowers her silence glaive completely releasing the aforementioned "Silence". The Silence ends all life to be born again. This technique kills her, though she can cause herself to incarnate again at will. This technique was powerful enough to reduce the tau world to "nothingness".

Beyond this she has a forcefield technique called "Silent Wall" and can create a distracting mist and some form of vortex with "Silence Glaive Surprise". She also has the ability to heal.

So could the Messiah of Darkness kill the Golden Queen?

In Terms of Raw Planet Power, Sailor Galaxia would completely overpower Sailor Saturn. The Saturn Crystal is relatively powerful, but it is not as raw powerful as the Saphir Crystal, equal to the Silver Crystal. That said the Saturn Crystal is relatively hax. While Galaxia is very high in power, she has no known paralysis resistance, and the slice of the Silence Glaive or the Death Reborn Revolution should theoretically serve to kill her. She is also a lifeform. If Sailor Saturn released the silence, which she would be hesistant to do, not wanting to hurt her new Earthly friends, then it would theoretically end Galaxia's life and the Saphir Crystal would have to be reborn along with everyone else.

Sailor Galaxia's two named attacks would tear though Saturn with raw power. However they would only be able to destroy Hotaru's body. While the Golden Queen can make a world inhospitable for the living and the dead, the soul incarnated by the Saturn Spirit is particularly tough and would be able to fight on. That said Galaxia's star seed steal would remove the Saturn Crystal and one-shot Hotaru, body soul and spirit. 

Galaxia's secondary abilities would give her a massive advantage over Saturn. Galaxia's enhanced senses would allow her to see right through the Silence Glaive Surprise and it's unlikely that even the Silent Wall could stand up the power of the most destructive crystal, the Saphir Crystal (also Galaxia can literally walk through Usagi's barriers, suggesting she could do the same with Hotaru). Meanwhile Galaxia can read Saturn's thoughts, knowing her tactics. Since this is right after Galaxia took the Star Seeds of the Outer Senshi it is also completely possible for Galaxia to create the Outer Senshi to fight for her, which would force Hotaru to fight her adopted mothers, exploiting Hotaru's good nature.

The most likely scenario if Sailor Galaxia and Sailor Saturn fought is Galaxia would one-shot her with her star seed rip as that is Galaxia's preferred tactic. However if Galaxia delays, Saturn would have a chance of catching her off-guard.

Ways to avoid a speedblitz

Ah, Speed. The notorious stat. It seems like nothing unbalances matches more then speed. However, I think people shouldn’t assume that speed advantage means a fight will necessarily be a speedblitz. There ARE ways to avoid a speedblitz without comparable speed.

0: Just tank it:

Ok this is sort of the obvious one so I’m not including that in the actual list. Obviously if your opponent can’t do any damage at all to you, then being massively faster isn’t going to help them. Often this is not so much physical durability, as it is having a non-physical form meaning your opponent literally can not affect you at all.

1: Passive Powers:

If you passively emanate the heat of the sun then it doesn’t matter if your opponent is faster if they don’t have the requisite durability, they can’t get close. Generally, such forms of passive powers are actually sub-optimal though since generally the speedster will notice and figure out some kind of ranged attack (if they don’t have one handy). Better are passive haxes, like passive mental manipulation. If you brainwash everyone in a planetary diameter passively, then an opponent with no knowledge but much faster will likely dash in and get trapped by your passive hax.

Perhaps most famously is passive spacetime warping, as such warping depending on the potency compared to the speedster’s speed advantage could allow the slower fighter to fight as if on a relatively even speed basis, allowing them to use their active abilities.

2: Pre-Cog

Pre-Cog is more of a partial counter, as if the speed gap is massive it can’t really compensate. That said a highly developed pre-cog can provide a counter to a lower level speed blitz by giving information on how to move to avoid strikes. Even greater then this would be knowing the future or being given information by your future self.

On a related note, a cosmic level intellect capable of knowing every possible scenario or most of them would act like a pre-cog by alerting the slower combatant of the probability of success of every course of action

3: Existing in multiple places at once

This isn’t a speed, but it does certainly help against speed. Some character exists in multiple universes at the same time meaning if one of them, or perhaps more accurately one part of them is blitzed, the others can still act and the faster character would not be aware of their existence until relatively too late. Duplication in general, as an activated ability, while it can’t initially stop a speedblitz, can quickly overwhelm the faster character depending on the potency of the duplication and the degree speed difference.

4: Time Travel + Acausality

If a character is unaffected by past actions and is able to time travel then it is wholly possible for them to go back in time and help their younger self resist a blitz, essentially duplicating across time. This can be done to any arbitrary space and time, meaning it can be used to protect pre-emptively against a speedblitz.

5: Existing outside spacetime

Complex one. Speed is (Change in Space)/(Change in Time). Characters that do not exist in spacetime functionally don’t have a speed, as neither can change and a speedster would not theoretically be able to blitz an entity that does not exist in any place of space or any moment of time. Not this only applies if the character is currently outside space and time. If they manifest physically in spacetime, then they would spontaneously gain speed by necessity.

Note, most verses that claim a character is outside spacetime unfortunately contradict this by depicting the character experiencing a change between a relative past, present and future which requires a time. One could theoretically resolve this contradiction by positing multiple temporal dimensions, though this is just speculation. So long as a character can experience change as opposed to a timeline existence where all things are, then it is possible for them to be blitzed though it can be much harder if said entity can exist when they wish obviously.

Perhaps it would be most accurate to say, that a character that physically exists outside spacetime, but whose consciousness exists within spacetime is essentially like the first point, while characters who both physically and consciousness wise are outside spacetime don’t have a speed and so therefore can not be lower speedwise then any character.

Considering Absurd Claims

This is my 150th blog on blogger and so I wanted to discuss something that I have been considering something for a long time, something really important.

Sometimes in debating, versus otherwise, your opposition will make an argument you find completely absurd. This causes people in general to become dismissive immediately, something which seems to me disadvantageous.

So long as it can be agreed that the majority is not always right, there must always be the possibility that something believed by the minority is true regardless of the fervor of the majority's belief or the degree of commonality of the concept.

It seems to me that rationally speaking, the more absurd a claim seems, the more it would behoove the listener of the majority to listen to the reasoning behind it, for intellectual curiosity and purely to see if it is indeed the case. Why not? The more popular one's view is, the more a position of implicit strength the individual is. The more strange and absurd a claim, the more surely the speaker must have some reason to go so against the tendency of the majority.

This goes to it's negative extreme that I most find to my distaste when people dismiss information or even a concept purely on the notion that it goes against the intuition. For us in the versus community, this naturally would apply to versus concepts and information.

But what am I even talking about, concretely speaking? Allow me to give an example with a verse I really like.

Let us say that someone presents the view that Batman scales to the high level justice league members like Superman based off a showing or two. I would view it thus to my duty, if I wish to argue against this to express why this seems like clearly an outlier to me, I would have to explain rationally this, because I could not dismiss this because "obviously Batman is not as strong as Superman." This is an argument purely on the grounds that something is "absurd" which itself implies only that the listener finds it absurd, a statement of subjective view which has no persuasive power besides what the initial speaker wishes to give the listener's views. Claiming that the majority believes something, also is a faulty argument, an appeal to popularity fallacy. For the record I don't actually think Batman scales to Superman. That was just an example.

I will see this all the time on versus sites, with people dismissing the information presented purely out of disbelief that the conclusion is correct.

Perhaps I have some bias here. I find it very easy personally to accept seemingly counter-intuitive information if given evidence. It is perhaps because of that reason that I find it so incredibly annoying. You can ask me for a reason for any of my beliefs and I will present you evidence. You can disagree with the evidence, that's fine, we can discuss that. But simply stating the opposite is not a argument. Your opinion does not carry ANY intrinsic meaning unless you can provide information saying that exact thing.

I am willing to listen to people give their reasoning for any claim they wanted to make, no matter how absurd, even if they are completely wrong. After all, if they are wrong then you can dissect their reasoning with evidence if you know what their reasoning is. And their is perhaps the chance that they are actually right or at least have an argument that will make you reconsider your own position. Just the other day on Youtube I saw a video actually arguing the merits of the much maligned live-action cat in the hat film and I must confess it was actually a very interesting argument. 

That is what I'm saying more then anything. If something seems absurd, be willing to hear the arguments and consider them as possibly being correct before jumping to a conclusion. This to me is very important, because it ties to the root of all debate. If we are to find truth, then we must be willing to acknowledge that our intuitions and our preconceptions might be wrong. The more people believe their intuitions are unchallenge-able, the more we are restricted from potentially finding truth.

Top 10 Mythological Deities

Just a little fun idea, my top 10 favorite mythological deities. This list does not include deities from major modern religions. I don't know that many mythologies so don't expect a huge reference pool.

10: Nephthys

Nepthys is underrated as a Goddess. She is the sister of some of the biggest names in Egyptian Mythology; Osiris, Set and Isis and archaeological evidence suggest she was as important then them though her role is more mysterious. Nephhys was often paired with her sister Isis as twin representatives of feminine power. Nephthys was paradoxically a mothering nurturing force, often depicted breastfeeding the infant Pharaoh and watching over the Pharaoh as moonlight over the forces in the darkness but was also a destructive force that could incinerate the enemies of the Pharaoh. What's interesting to note is when Set was being a villain, the lord of the desert and sandstorms and chaos, Nepthys was not with him. But when Set was being noble such as helping Ra slay Apophis every night, it was then she would be depicted with him, as his wife. As such there is some element of the civilizing power of the feminine within Nepthys, turning the primary villain of the Egyptian pantheon into a more noble force.

9: Quetzalcoatl

The Aztec Gods can seem relatively alien and strange these days, though in some respects they have a very interesting duality to them all. Tezcatlipoca for instance while the god of night, jaguars and strife was also the patron of slaves and sought vengeance on their behalf against cruel masters. Quetzalcoatl is another one of these paradoxes. The "feathered serpent" is at once a creature of the ground, a serpent, and a creature the sky being a feathered flying being. Even more surprising is Quetzalcoatl's nobility even to a contemporary moral standard. Some sources even suggest that he opposed human sacrifice which would be very strange for an Aztec God. Lord of the Star of Dawn seems to be some embodiment of the spirit of nature and it's internal paradox.

8: Freyja

Freyja is a goddess cut in the ancient Ishtar mold of being a goddess both of love, sex, fertility but also of war and death. Freyja was a member of the Vanir who waged was with the Aesir. Freya and her twin brother Frey were both sent to live with the Aesir in exchange for peace. Freyja's Vanir origin are perhaps where her domain as goddess of love come from while her Aesir domain is possibly where her Goddess of War side comes from. Freyja is one of the most interesting of these dual goddess of love and war types goddesses I've seen because most of the others seem purely impulsive (like Ishtar going from lovey and wanting to sleep with Gilgamesh to Hateful and Violent when he rejects her) whereas Freyja seems to not particularly like war and do so out of necessity. 

7: Ra

Ra is the Lord of the Egyptian Pantheon (generally) and represents the all ruling Sun. Ra in some depictions is close to omnipotence having created himself out of nothing and forming the other concepts from parts of him. What makes Ra interesting is just how many aspects and forms he has, such as Ra-Atum the creator, Ra-Horakthy the Avenger, and so on. 

6: Sekhmet/Hathor

Sekhmet was originally the eye of Ra sent by him to punish the mortals, but her bloodlust became so insatiable that she could not be stopped. She is a merciless goddess of warfare and vengeance. She threatened everyone until a clever plan was hatched to stop her. Large amounts of wine disguised as blood were fed to her until she became so drunk she could no longer continue to fight and returned peacefully to Ra's side where he turned her into Hathor, the peaceful goddess of love, healing and generally everything unwarlike so Sekhmet would not go on a rampage. Best way I can describe it is...

Top 10 Anime Redemptions

5: Xochiquetzal

Contrary to most Aztec deities, Xochiquetzal actually had a fairly simple role in Aztec Mythology. She was a goddess of feminine sexuality, beauty and childbirth. Xochiquetzal for her limited role is quite the mystic goddess, seen as a patron of artists, of the mysterious appeal of the feminine that draws the males. She is also the patron of butterflies, starting that association early, and is the mother of Quetzalcoatl which is neat.

4: Prometheus

Prometheus is a noble figure that does not get the like he deserves :( He used to. Back a few hundred years ago Prometheus was the archetypal symbol of standing against tyranny. He gave Humanity fire, the power that would allow them, in the mythology itself, to rival the gods. Zeus chained him up, and had a vulture eat out his internal organs every day to regenerate at night. Zeus offered to free him if he would use his foresight to tell him who would surpass and surplant Zeus as King of the Gods. But Prometheus every day would not tell Zeus what he wanted to know, no matter what tactic he tried to use. Prometheus is a symbol of the nobility of man in some cases. 

3: Venus

Note, I like the Roman Venus over her Greek counterpart Aphrodite as the Roman Venus was often much nicer. After all the Romans traced their ancestry back to the legendary Aeneas, son of Venus. Venus was born when the genitals of the sky primordial Uranus was castrated by his son the Titan King Saturn and fell into the ocean the foam creating the goddess. She was the sole goddess feared by Jupiter, king of the gods, himself, as even he was susceptible to the pulling of love as shown by his many number of children. Venus is the representative of love itself, and her aspects represented the many forms of love even the celestial love.

2: Athena

Athena is the patron of the civilized things. The crafts, the arts, strategy, architecture. More broadly Athena is wisdom, she is the embodiment of the human consciousness, the logos that would later be discovered to be so preciously divine. Athena is the human reason that creates civilization. Athena is the nobility of humanity thus to me. Despite being a virgin goddess, Athena unlike her half-sister Artemis seemed fond of men and was the patron of male heroes. This is why she is often used as symbol of freedom and democracy. She is also on a more narrative sense by far one of the nicest Olympians and I rarely ever see anyone mention it. People are quick to talk about how Hades is surprisingly nice because he only RARELY did things that were mean towards humanity. The only times Athena did something of that accord was possibly Arachne and Medusa, and even some versions of the stories suggest both Aranche and Medusa are much to blame for what happened to them. To give an idea of Athena's niceness let me compare two stories. Her Half-Sister the also Virgin Goddess Artemis was bathing and the male hunter Actaeon ran across her. Enraged she turned him into a stag and had his own dogs eat him alive. Conversely when Athena was bathing and the male Tiresias came across her, he was stuck blind and upon learning that he accidentally had done so gave him the gift of foresight. Also just as circumstance, a lot of her stories are really entertaining.

1: Isis

Isis, the Egyptian goddess of motherhood, magic, feminine power, wisdom. Isis is like the ideal mix of several entities on this list. To secure kingship for her husband Osiris and their son Horus Isis managed to trick even the nigh-omnipotent Ra, making a serpent out of clay and his drool, and then using that serpent to bite him (possible because it too had Ra's power). Ra could only relieve the snake bite with Isis' help if he told her his true name giving her the control of the universe. Isis serves in all stories about her as a devoted mother and wife, while also being a competent and mystically powerful goddess. She was so popular that during the Roman Empire, when most of the gods were being forsaken, the cult of Isis still prospered across the empire. It is well known that I am a fan of the magical girl genre, a genre about the intersection of femininity and mysticism, the unique relationship of these two things, and Isis represents that intersection, the universal mystical feminine energy that births and loyally aids the masculine physical reality. 

Superheroes and Killing

This blog is an analysis on why it seems to me that superheroes killing is perfectly fine, and potentially positive. I believe this contention must be addressed on two levels: the ethical question (IE if this situation was a real situation would it be ethical to kill) and the metafictional question (IE is it better for the story for them to kill).

So for the former, obviously there is no universally agreed on "moral" or "immoral". That said an ethical system that says killing is NEVER justified seems wholly outside mainstream thought, and any system which argues such a system seems inconsistent with simple thought experiments.

Obviously, if morality is wholly relativistic or nihilistic, then it is inconsistent to claim an act is "immoral". If morality is socially constructed or arbitrary constraints then it seems self-evident no act will be universally immoral. Such is also the case in any form of consequential ethics system, where the morality of a system is determined by it's effects. Famously the Utilitarian answer to the trolley problem is to sacrifice one person to save 5 people, and in fact to not do so is outright immoral as it is sacrificing many for one.

In order for the ACT of killing itself to be problem-atized, one requires a form of deontological ethical system, where the morality of an action is determined by the nature of the action itself, at least in part.

That's fine, however to have a deontological rule against killing consistently is to say it is never acceptable under ANY circumstances to kill, which would be highly outside normal intuitive range and against conventional popular culture, where very often the protagonist generally designated hero kills. My intuition here is to give examples, but it is honestly hard because there is simply so many examples, both of western culture and my own culture, where killing is deemed perfectly acceptable, even a vital act, for the hero. This ranges from magical girls and colorfully suited sentai heroes blowing up monsters of the week, shonen warriors often brutally defeating minor henchmen of the main villain until the arc villain is defeated, medieval fantasy heroes slaying orcs and goblins by the hoard, science fiction heroes blasting alien monsters, video game protagonists making their way through hoards of enemy per level and so forth. To put it bluntly, it's hard for me to reconcile the idea that superheroes killing removes their heroism, somehow makes the work dark and gritty, when a magical girl manga for teen girls in the 90s has the heroine slice the head off a monster on-panel in the first chapter (That's not even getting a 1% of the stuff that's in Sailor Moon, if SAILOR MOON is way darker then a series, then no I'm not gonna consider it even remotely dark). As such to keep such a deontological rule for anyone outside superheroes is to necessitate to view vast swaths of fiction's heroes as anti-heroes at best.

Now granted, generally it seems that the opposition to the act of killing it itself, but to the superhero killing, as a form of relational ethics. It is ambiguous to me, whether this is from an in-universe perspective, that it is wrong for a person in the superhero role to kill if they were real, or from an out of universe perspective, that the superhero archetype should not kill as literature. As such I will try to address both points separately.

Now, as you might imagine, it's difficult to talk generalities when there exists such differences in superheroes....for the purpose of hypothetical I will discuss two hypothetical superheroes, The Cape and The Cowl. The Cape has been granted by some source godlike power to shape the world but has a psychology comparable to a human. The Cowl is a vigilante and exists within a normal human framework. These two are expies of Superman and Batman fairly obviously, though these can also be used for comparison for most heroes of their nature.

The Cape is the symbol of hope for his world, a benevolent demigod. It is fairly obvious that realistically speaking such an entity is outside the bounds of humanity to punish should we desire too, but morally speaking should such an entity obey the rules of humanity? Let us assume for the sake of this hypothetical that The Cape does wish to obey the morals of humanity. In the DC Universe, Superman follows human morals, particularly because he views himself as an (adopted) human but moreover because he views himself as above no one. He has no special immunity to the law, regardless of how easily he could infringe it. So in our hypothetical let us say The Cape is subject to the laws and morals of humanity.

What could be extrapolated from this? Obviously it would be seen as immoral and moreover illegal for The Cape to use lethal force on a normal human, even a vile one. Best case scenario this would be considered a crime of passion, worst case it would be murder legally. That seems fine to state, that the Cape should not use their godlike power to kill those that pose no effective threat to them. But then this logic seems to be applied to entities that equal the Cape or even exceed them. This is in contradiction to both law and precedent. Most legal systems in the world recognize "self-defense law", allowing for the use of force up to and including lethal force in the case of self-defense and also generally have laws allowing for the use of force, again up to and including lethal force in the case of protecting innocents from those who would willfully and deliberately harm them. The Cape might be a demigod, and not need fear threats from human threats, but should they come across a villain who seeks to kill them or perish trying, or should they come across a villain who seeks the death of innocents willfully, any civilized legal system in the world would refuse to convict The Cape should he require lethal force to protect his life or the life of innocents.

Obviously something being legal does not make it moral necessarily and as discussed above there is no universal agreement on the moral. Yet if one wishes to have a coherent moral philosophy, even without a unifying logic, one must at least have the capacity to give AN answer to a moral question, and a moral philosophy that suggests that in the case where The Cape MUST choose between using lethal force to kill a combatant who is willfully attempting to destroy The Cape and the entire human populace, versus allowing himself and the world's population to perish that the latter is the more moral option seems to fly completely against any common sense.

I should note that this is not controversial for Superman in particular. Superman has used lethal force before. In the Death of the Superman arc, he used lethal force to kill Doomsday though he himself died in the attempt (technically neither really died, though Superman had at least the intent to kill to protect the world). Perhaps Doomsday isn't considered because the sapience of the creature is called into question (though Doomsday possesses at least some sapience and the higher order of animals of comparable intelligence like apes and elephants have some rights under the law). However such can not be said of Darkseid, who is possessing of an intelligent and awareness far surpassing humanity. Yet in the event Final Crisis, Superman cancels out the vibrations of Darkseid's strings, not just killing him, but erasing him from existence. Though he would eventually return, this was clearly force well exceeding lethal. Superman was started in the Golden Age as a character that didn't even mind if a criminal died.

I must admit a bias to my own intuition. If it can be said that intelligence and wisdom are keys in determining morality, such as when killing would be justified, it would seem to me that The Cape, gifted with a super-intelligent and a greater wisdom and awareness of the cosmos would have an ability to greater determine when to kill with greater ability and with a greater ability to explain and justify their reasoning then any human, or indeed depending on the extent the whole of humanity. This to me is why the morality of The Cape can seem alien. Assuming morality is existent, The Cape gifted with intellectual capacities beyond humanity would have a greater ability to understand it and a greater ability to express it.

Let us turn to The Cape's compatriot, The Cowl. The Cowl is a vigilante who fights human crime on a more even level. While easily stronger in capacities then the average criminal, they can still pose a credible threat to them. They are gifted with no superhuman abilities.

Obviously The Cowl can not simply become immune to the law as The Cape could potentially be. Some of the philosophical problems with The Cape do not apply to The Cape. The Cape is obviously subject to the laws and morals of humanity. The very fact that they are characterized as a vigilante, designating them as acting outside the laws that they would normally be bound too, shows that they would normally be subject to the laws.

If The Cowl existed in the real world (and honestly several do....there are actually street level heroes that wander around), is it legal for him to kill?

Well let's start by saying, if The Cowl is acting outside the law anyway, then saying that shouldn't kill because it's illegally not only isn't technically true (because it is legal in certain circumstances) but also philosophically untrue because the law is driving their actions. If they are acting within the law, then the law allows killing in certain circumstances anyway so obviously it's not because they are breaking the law.

So why doesn't The Cowl kill? Generally the reason given is either pragmatic in nature or psychological in nature. Obviously these can be both sub-divided ad infinitum into more and more specifics however it's important to register that in neither case are we talking anymore about what is moral in the broad, rather talking about the specifics of the individual.

What this means is that it is not wrong for all vigilante heroes to kill, just that specific individuals have a personal reason, pragmatic or psychological to not do so, a rule that can't be universalized by definition.

In general, "killing" as an action can neither be generalized as being immoral or illegal, as there are clear exceptions where it can be both moral and legal to kill an opponent. In the real world, should superheroes exist demanding that they kill does not seem to be "holding them to a higher standard" as that would imply there is something inherently morally wrong with the act of killing itself, which is inconsistent. Demanding that they not kill instead would seem to penalize them arbitrarily for something that would not be viewed dis-favorably if done by a non-superhero. In our real world, there exists soldiers and police who are forced to kill in the line of duty and this does not seem problem-atized.

But perhaps this is wholly the wrong angle, and the real objection instead comes from the metafictional approach. "The superhero should not kill" is not a statement of the philosopher but the artist in this case. Obviously it can not be an ontological statement that the construct of the archetype of the superhero does not kill because there are a pletheora of examples of characters universally regarded as Superheroes who kill. Off the top of my head

1: Superman (as mentioned above)
2: Wonder Woman: Killed Maxwell Lord in Infinite Crisis and the half-demon monster Grendel
3:  Doctor Fate: Has killed many evil magicians and once punched an entire planet into the sun
4: Numerous Green Lanterns have killed before such as Guy Gardner killing a member of the Sinestro Corps
5: Black Canary: Killed Everyman
6: Starfire: Killed the Gordanian Slavers that took her as a slave
7: The Spectre: Regularly kills, as the embodiment of God's Vengeance

So obviously it is not an ontological statement that the superhero can not kill, unless the individual is claiming that all these entities are not superheroes. Rather it seems to be a claim that the superhero should not kill.

This should immediately be noted as an aberration. There is no other heroic archetype where it is claimed that the archetype should not kill entirely.

This is not derived in any way by the predecessors of the superhero. If we look into the distant past, the mythological heroes of ages past, would slay monsters and villains purely as a matter of course. The Pulp Heroes of the past such as The Shadow would also regularly kill criminals. In fact I read one speculation that the reason the Golden Age Batman switched from using guns and killing criminals to not doing so was so to distinguish him from The Shadow.

To demand that the Superhero Archetype must REQUIRE the lack of usage of lethal force seems to require reason. Perhaps one can argue that the Superhero archetype should be a moral example to follow. I actually would agree, and would extend this argument to many other heroic archetypes. And to me that is actually the way which wanting the Superhero Archetype to not kill is not only not more moral, but it actually less moral.

As established above, it almost universally agreed that there exists some circumstances in which to kill is morally justified, and in the case of protecting the lives of innocents may prove even necessary. If this is accepted then to instruct people away from necessary action for the purpose of arbitrarily limiting the actions of heroes to an irrational set of actions seems irresponsible.

If it is accepted that superheroes are a modern mythological hero, a larger then life heroic entity designed to provide moral instruction, it is of even greater importance that they be allowed to show how to handle morally difficult situations such as the trolley problem, where one must choose between the life of the individual and the lives of the many, often a far easier version of the trolley problem where the individual is not blameless but directly the cause of the danger to the many.

I must admit a particular bias here. I sense a western conception of the eternal, iconic that confuses me and that I do not understand the appeal off. There seems a conception that the ideal fiction is of such archetypal nature that they exist as pure archetype. In other words the most "pure" Superman is one that is the perfect hero.

But the difference between archetype and character is change. The Archetype exists outside space and time as ideal form. The Character, is the individual changing in response to the movement of space and time who at different times will resemble different archetypes. While there is something to be said of creating a character that can resemble the archetype, who can have such a potency that they seem to become universal, it is antithetical to the nature of story if they can not leave the bounds of the pure Archetype.

There seems to be a great disturbance at deviating the superhero too far from their starting point, that they become a different character wholly. One of my bottom 5 superhero stories, and one that is fairly uncontroversial is the Spider-Man story "One More Day". OMD represents to me this problem in abstract. OMD was made because Spider-Man had transitioned from a Nerdy Teenager with secret powers, to a happily married adult who recently had his powers revealed and then he was reverted to the original. And here is where my bias probably comes in, this attitude is something I really detest, that things must remain the same and can not change, as it would inevitably with time. If you watch anime or read manga, especially ones that aren't the most popular ones, you will notice villains die and the heroes age at the same rate or faster then then actual series comes out. If I'm honest, I wish comics would do the same. I wish things changed naturally, that society would be shaped by these demigods, with their godlike technology, magic, intelligence and capacities. But so long as series are so tied to the status quo that a major villain can't even die, then this will never happen. As long as the stories of superheroes are so limited in their capacity to actually change that their world that they can't even permanently win the battle with one of their villains, then their impact on their world will remain limited to such a degree that the world can not change naturally.

In Conclusion: Both philosophically and artistically, their is no rational reason that the superhero should not kill.

Ranking every Teen Titans Member in power

Basically just like my ranking every Justice League members blog. This is only counting people who are or have been a member of the Teen Titans or one of their subgroups (like Titans East). As always I am fallible human, and while I have a pretty good knowledge of DC, some of these guys I don't really know that well. 

Fights are assumed to take place in an empty city and both sides are at strongest state.

Unclassifiable: Chris King and Hero Cruz

These guys use the "H-Dial" which gives you random powers. So I can't exactly assess them.

88: Animal Girl

Animal Girl could theoretically get higher up depending on WHERE they are, but the ability to control animals (non-sapient animals) means that if no outside help is present, then she has almost nothing she can do. She also has some degree of enhanced healing though it doesn't seem that strong.

87: Chimera

Not to be confused with King Chimera of the JSA. Chimera is a durlan, a race of shapeshifters. Chimera is in very few comics making it hard to know what exactly her shapeshifting range is though it doesn't seem particularly big. Her bigger form should give her theoretically enough mass and reach to beat Animal Girl. 

86: Azrael

Not to be confused with the Jean-Paul Azrael. Azrael can fly, has enhanced agility...and that's basically it. Also implied to be kinda tough as he survived a spaceship crash. He could probably get rocks and fly above Chimera and just drop them on her with a lot of force due to gravity. 

85: The Protector

From the anti-drug PSA. Does not approve of drugs. Literally was only made because the writers of Teen Titans were not allowed to put Dick Grayson in the story. Technically a Titans member. He has some hand to hand training meaning he would probably beat Azrael in melee and has some ranged gadgets to bring him down to Earth if he tries to stay at range in the sky. 

84: Redwing

Sometimes uses a gun which would be....bad for the Protector. Also even without it has really sharp claws that would tear him bad and has agility advantage with flight.

83: Pantha

The werecat ;) Pantha vs unarmed Redwing means Redwing just gets hunted like a cat does a bird and torn to shreds, and even if she is armed Pantha at least has a chance to pounce on her or use stealth

82: Skitter

An Insectoid Creature. I don't agree with scaling Skitter to people like Wonder Girl when her actual feats are so low. That said her thick carapace that can protect her from explosions should be able to hold off the strength of Pantha. She is pretty strong too and could bruise Pantha or entangle her with her webs. Also while Pantha has the agility advantage, Skitter is not too far behind with her ability to stick to any surface and crawl around. 

81: Risk

Risk is enhanced in physical stats and senses. It would take a lot for Risk to breath Skitter's carapace, but he's faster then her I think and should be able to overwhelm her.

80: Fringe

Fringe is pretty similar to Risk versus-wise but has a danger sense rather then enhanced normal senses, and has slightly more armoring. I'd do with him probably for better defenses slightly. 

79: Roundhouse

Rather new member. Curls up into a ball and rolls with lots of speed and force. Similar level of speed and power to above two members but ball shape is smaller target. while Fringe's danger sense would let him evade for a while, eventually think Roundhouse would hit him and shatter his legs, ending the fight.

78: Young Frankenstein

(Note: Image is Misleading as Black Adam did break out relatively easily)

Young Frankenstein, while he's not very smart, is a strong and skilled enough fighter to intercept roundhouse and break his strategy. I think. 

77: Enigma

Riddler's daughter. She's a fairly skilled figher, and while her riddle-love might hamper it a little bit, she probably would be able to outsmart Young Frankenstein. 

76: Duela Dent

Joker's daughter. Supposed to be pretty comparable to Enigma, but has better gadgets, including a lipstick that shoots bullets.

75: Bushido

Is a Samurai. Pre-Black Lanternizing he was pretty much just a Samurai. His raw discipline should be able to beat Duela's insanity. If he gets in close he just slashes her and he can probably avoid her gadgets by exploiting her insanity. 

74: Kole

Is a somewhat skilled figher and more importantly creates big crystal constructs and projections. Creates a crystal wall to protect her from Bushido and slashes at him with crystals out of his reach.

73: Wildebeest

Is likely physically strong enough to smash through Kole's crystals and overwhelm her.

72: Hawkfire

The Pre-Crisis Batgirl. Could probably immolate Wildebeest. Honestly don't recall anything impressive from her. 

71: Hot Spot

Fire Projection, genius intellect, can see heat through objects. Hot Spot probably beats Hawkfire due to higher versatility.

70: Zachary Zatara

Cousin of Zatanna. His reality-warping magic could technically beat most of the people on this list, but he can't affect people directly and he can get speedblitzed. Calls down a snowstorm and Hot Spot is mostly neutralized. Calls something like a angry bear near him and it's gg.

69: Speedy (Mia Dearden)

Skilled markswoman and swordswoman though it's indicated she's a bit fragile. She could probably quickly arrow Zachary lethally before he can cast.

68: Red Arrow (Emiko Queen)

Comparable to superior markswoman to Speedy. While not as good at swords, is better at hand to hand in general. Not quite as fragile as Speedy. Should be able to take her most of the time.

67: Robin (Damian Wayne)

Damian is the Fourth and latest Robin. He is notably overconfident, claiming to be as good at martial arts as Batman, as good a marksman as Green Arrow, and light years ahead of all the other Robins. That said he is still a very good martial artist, having been trained by his father Batman, and seems to be the most stealthy of the Robins (as well as having the general gadgets of a Robin). Likely sneaks up on Emiko Queen and disables her with one of his gadgets.

66: Mirage:

A skilled fighter and also an illusionist, Mirage could likely exploit Daiman's overconfident by creating an illusionary self, waiting for him to sneak up on it and tagging him as he tags her illusion. 

65: Molecule:

Can shrink down to tiny size, though not to the atomic size like the Atom can. Mirage's illusions would theoretically work on him, but she would still not have any way of detecting where he is and eventually he will find the real her, enter her brain and kill her. 

64: Bumblebee:

Bumblebee can shrink down just like Molecule can but also has bee-flight and bee stingers for ranged attack. She's honestly basically just got his powerset and more.

63: Kid Devil:

Not only is Kid Devil a Skilled Fighter, but he has a healing factor strong enough to protect him from the bee strings, can fly himself, and has his fire breath which would would burn Bumblebee regardless of size if she is in the AoE and if she's even close it would melt her wings.

62: Solstice

Solstice can fly as well, and her light manipulation can be used at a much longer range then Kid Devil's Fire Breath. 

61: Herald

Can open up rifts in spacetime into other dimensions with his horn. Light is bent by spacetime, meaning his spacetime holes would bend light inwards away from him. A few of these portals and Solstice will probably get trapped as her ranged attacks needing to be a proper angle to hit him while he just needs to get close to suck her into another dimension.

60: Bunker:

Bunker's Psychic Shields would protect him from Herald's spacetime holes, and he should be able to to overwhelm him with scattered hits from psionic explosions. Bunker is mostly going by implications as he is a pretty easy-going character but is implied to be really powerful potentially. 

59: Golden Eagle:

Golden Eagle's flight is fast enough that he should be able to avoid Bunker's psionic blasts, especially given the strength of his super sight allowing him to stay much further away. Then when Bunker starts to tire, he can swoop in with an eagle dive and hit Bunker with his sharp talons. 

58: Red Robin (Tim Drake):

The Intellectual of the Robins with the best detective skills and general intelligence. While he doesn't have the enhanced eyesight of Golden Eagle, or as skilled fighter, he's physically comparable elsewise and has a lot better gadgets. Think he could probably take him down. 

57: Red Arrow (Roy Harper):

Said to be the second best marksman in the DC Universe after Green Arrow, and isn't that far behind. Not as versatile as Tim Drake, but should be able to rush and overwhelm him with a flurry of arrows even if he flies really far away. 

56: Red Hood (Jason Todd):

The Gritty Robin with the best physical strength and durability of them. His raw durability, pain tolerance and armoring should let him get close enough to Roy to physically overwhelm him, and even at range, while he's not as accurate, his guns are dangerous weapons. 

55: Vulcan:

With a nigh impervious shield, a crazy strong sword for his tier, powerful pyrokinesis and dimensional travel Vulcan is a monster in combat. Jason's only chance is to get a lucky headshot. No matter how durable he is, he's not surviving a slice from Vulcan's monomolecular blade that disrupts at the molecular level.

54: The Atom (Ray Palmer):

At Atomic Sizes, there is no way even the molecular sword of Vulcan will hit the Atom. Atom can easily get the small openings in Vulcan's armor. Using the Microverse, Atom can even pursue Vulcan through dimensions.

53: Red Star:

If there is one thing that can kill an atomic sized entity, it's radiation. Red Star's red radiation would probably kill Ray at range before he can get act.

52: Offspring:

I don't think Red Star has enough raw firepower to kill an entity like Offspring before Offspring takes him out, and he doesn't have any specialized gadgets to hurt him.

51: Talon:

Earth-3 Talon, not to be confused with Earth-1 Talon who is unrelated. Talon is an alternate universe Nightwing and probably would have some gadget hax like freezing that would work on Offspring

50: Nightwing (Richard Grayson):

The First Robin, with the best mobility, versatility and martial arts skills. He's pretty much equal with his alternate universe counterpart. Nightwing has better feats though.

49: Ravager:

Comparable skill to Nightwing, but at least partial scaling to Deathstroke gives her higher stats.

48: Jericho:

Can just possess Ravager and make her kill herself

47: Omen:

Pretty powerful psychic. Her psychic shields protect her and she can brain control Jericho at range before he can possess her. 

46: Mas y Menos:

Technically two people but seperate they have literally no powers. They have raced across the Earth so that would put them at least at MHS speeds. Would be able to punch Omen's psionic shields over and over and get a punch in before she can brainwash them.

45: Danny the Street:

A Living City Block. Would be able to confuse Mas y Menos with it's teleportation and vague pseudo omnipresence and untangle the two and crush them when they are powerless.

44: Anima:

In her base, she would be around the strength of Vulcan with a good armor and weapon but her ability to summon spirits, especially Animus means she could rise this high. Animus would be able to attack Danny the Street on a spiritual level. 

43: Aquagirl (Lorena Marquez):

I think with her Atlantean Strength and Speed, Lorena could potentially overwhelm Anima and Trident her before she would be able to summon Animus, though it's dicey. 

42: Lagoon Boy:

Is another Atlantean but his puffer quills and ability to inflate gives him a bit of an edge.

41: Dove (Don Hall):

An Avatar of Peace. Don's raw stats as Avatar of Peace should let him overwhelm Lagoon Boy.

40: Hawk (Henry Hall):

An Avatar of War. While they have the same powers, Henry is way more aggressive and violent then his brother. 

39: Hawk (Holly Granger):

I think it's implied the new Hawk and Dove are stronger then the last ones.

38: Dove (Dawn Granger):

Dawn is portrayed as equal to her sister, but holds back a lot more meaning in a no holds barred fight, Dove would probably win.

37: Power Girl (Tanya Spears):

Tanya has powerful super stats and the ability to grow giant, from what I've seen, strong enough to at least overcome Dove and Hawk especially with her super intellect.

36: Aquagirl (Tula):

Tula is a very powerful Atlantean and probably has enough physical strength to knock out Tanya, especially if she grows massive and becomes a big target. It helps that she is a much more skilled fighter and she has magic.

35: Prysm:

Relativistic Laser Fire and flight would allow her to just bombard Tula until she dies from overheating. 

34: Static:

Static's control of the electromagnetic spectrum gives him full control of Prysm's powerset and while it would be hard, he could eventually bring her down physically. 

33: Terra:

The Traitor Titan has an incredible control of Earth, able to shift entire islands. She would easily be able to create an earth wall capable of blocking Static's attacks and crushing him with a massive earthslide. 

32: Aqualad (Jackson Hyde):

Upper Level Atlantean Stats, control of both water and lightning to a fair degree and a highly skilled fighter. Aqualad would probably be able to punch through Terra's earth wall unless she has some time to prepare which he wouldn't give her (as if she tries he could send lightning right to kill her). Terra's fairly durable, but not durable enough to stop him from knocking her out with a single strike.

31: Argent:

Powerful plasma manipulator. Can create a whole army of plasma superheroes. Unless they start in melee range, Aqualad wouldn't be able to get through her plasma shields and forces.

30: Aqualad (Garth)/Tempest:

Confirmed to be the second strongest Atlantean, with a wide array of magical powers. Garth vs Argent would be a good fight, but Garth is more versatile at range, and far stronger in melee. Argent's ability to create an army would hold him off but can't see her beating Garth in the long game.

29: Powerboy:

Not much info but he is a New God so he should have well over enough power to destroy Garth.

28: Little Barda:

Another New God. Beat Powerboy.

27: Jon Kent:

Superman's son. Kinda inconsistent in power but should be enough if serious to beat the weaker new gods.

26: Crush:

Lobo's Daughter. Not much info so far, but imagine she's probably similar to Jon Kent, though with more combat experience and a weapon.

25: Minion:

Has the Omegadrone which I have to imagine is above baseline planetary forces based on depiction. Minion is basically a weaker Cyborg.

24: Kid Eternity:

Intangible, Invisible and can summon historical figures, demons, and mythical entities. Can also enter the mental plane and other peoples' minds. Don't think Minion has anything that can kill him.

23: Blue Beetle:

The Scarab has weapons that can hit intangibles and without his intangibility as a defense Kid Eternity would just get massively blitzed.

22: Cyborg:

Victor has comparable versatility to Jaime but currently outstats him. 

21: Beast Boy:

Can turn into animals, including alien and mythical ones and the monkey king Hanuman. Some of the Animals would just raw overpower Cyborg.

20: The Wonder Twins:

Honestly these two would be a lot higher on the last list if they are allowed to transform. Janya has the same power as Beast Boy and Zan can give a bit of extra help.

19: Superboy (Conner Kent):

Superboy is probably strong enough to take out most of what the twins can transform into with brute force and speed. 

18: Starfire:

Starfire has taken out Kryptonians before by draining their solar energy in conjunction with her own natural stats. While Superboy would be a bit hard, that plus her higher combat training and skill would likely give her the win. 

17: Bombshell:

Control of the quantum fields. Would be able to boost herself to beyond Starfire's level and manipulate her energies on the quantum level to use against her. Starfire has energy manipulation but it's much more limited.

16: Djinn II:

A reality-warping spirit. Manipulation of matter-energy is not so relevant against a spiritual djinn, even if on the quantum level while Djinn could just reality-warp Bombshell into pieces of scrap metal.

15: Kid Flash (Wallace West):

A Speedforce User. While speed steal might not work on an entity like Djinn, speedforce dump should still be able to work, and moreover Djinn is NEVER tagging Kid Flash.

14: Impulse (Bart Allen)

More experienced speedforce user.

13: Wonder Girl (Cassandra)

I think Wonder Girl has fast enough reflexes to lasso a minor speedforce user, though their relative speeds is inconsistent. Still if she has a moment to prepare, Cassie flies up into the air where it is harder for Bart to pursue and slams back into the area in an orbital piledriver.

12: Donna Troy

Donna Troy was also Wonder Girl but the consensus seems to be that Donna would beat Cassie due to being more level-headed and thinking calmer.

11: Osiris:

Osiris has part of the power of Black Adam. Given the enormity of Black Adam's power, a significant portion, should allow him to beat Donna. His lightning isn't that much of an advantage due to Donna's bracelets. While Donna is smart, Osiris does have the wisdom of Zehuti, which should also give him an edge. 

10: Miss Martian

Miss Martian is weaker then Osiris, but her regen should let her survive long enough to use her mental attack on him. I don't think the courage of Mehen has ever let him withstand an attack like that.

9: Damage (Garth Emerson)

Damage has fast enough reflexes to react to Zoom and has strong enough energy-matter manipulation to recreate the Big Bang. While physically is weaker then Miss Martian, his raw energy-matter manipulation should enough to explode the atoms of Miss Martian

8: Phantasm

Phantasm has the souls of Azarath within it, capable of universal reality-warping. While Damage has matter-energy manipulation of a similar scale, Phantasm can warp on a higher plane with it's magic. 

7: Raven

Raven has similar abilities to Azarath, but is canonically stronger and at her strongest can even beat her father Trigon the Terrible. 

6: Kyle Rayner

As a white lantern, Kyle should be highly resist to the emotional manipulation of Raven's empathic abilities. His lantern abilities are equally to more versatile, but he can much better defend himself against counterattack.

5: Jesse Quick

A fairly high-end speedster. Speedforce dump likely wouldn't work against a white Lanter. This might seem like it's impossible for her to kill Kyle but she can likely phase through Kyle's constructs and speed steal him until he's an immobile statue and yoink his ring.

4: Supergirl (Kara Zor-El)

I completely forgot how strong the Pre-Crisis Supergirl was, strong enough to threaten even an early Anti-Monitor. There is a reason she was often said to be equal to Pre-Crisis Superman. Jesse might be a bit faster but Kara could resist her abilities and eventually tag her.

3: Shazam (Freddy Freeman)

Since Kara has powers like Pre-Crisis Superman and Freddy is the new Shazam, a fight might sound basically like Clark vs Billy. That said, Kara doesn't have all the tricks of her cousin. I think Freddy's greater experience and the wisdom of Solomon would give him the win.

2: The Flash (Wally West)

Even the speed of Hermes would not let Freddy keep up with Wally. While he's physically a lot weaker, speedforce dump would let him beat Freddy.

1: Supergirl (Linda Danvers)

Oh my God. Angel Supergirl. Ok so she's one third of the Schechina, the female half of the Presence. She and the other two members of the Schnchina fought Carnivore after he absorbed the power of the Presence itself. Her divine fire burned Aztar, the demon forming the power of the Spectre. Linda blasts Wally across all planes of reality.