Sunday, August 18, 2024

Ranking Start of Series Protagonists


A ranking of how strong the protagonists of my favorite series were at the start of their series. So this is a blog I did a while back but with two crucial differences:

1: That was just using feats the characters had in their first episode/chapter/level without any scaling to anything outside of it. This is with all the retroactive scaling the characters had from the start of the series

2: I added a new series to the list

So yeah, this is an analysis on how I would rank the 33 protagonists from my 33 favorite series at the start of their series. I should note that for each of these it's the protagonist at the release order start rather than the chronological start. In other words, if there are prequels then it's the first appearance of the character from our chronology, not the first story to take place in the universe of the character. This doesn't change much for most characters, but for someone like Kratos from God of War for instance, this is at the end of the first level of the first God of War was to be released, God of War (2005) after the conclusion of the Hydra battle, not the first level of God of War: Ascension the earlier game chronologically.



33: Haruhi Fujioka: Haruhi is a normal human and teenage girl. She doesn't scale to any particularly notable physical feats and lacks superhuman abilities. She's quite smart, but that's her only super helpful capability in combat. 


32: Watanuki Kimihiro: Watanuki only has one supernatural ability, that being his ability to see spirits, which is not particularly helpful in combat. He does have a few comical physical feats of exaggeration. In comparison between Haruhi and Watanuki, it would be somewhat like a hypothetical fight between Haruhi and Tamaki. Watanuki has comical physical feats, mostly in durability, but is characteristically high-strung and foolish, particularly at the start of the story. It's possibly Haruhi could win if she manipulated Watanuki but start of series Haruhi is stubbornly unaware of her own limitations so I think most likely Watanuki would win. 


31: Wirt: Wirt doesn't have the same physical strength/durability feats that Watanuki does, but he has a weird feat of dodging the falling teardrops of a monster called "Papa" which almost immediately filled an entire clearing, a speed feat suggesting subsonic to supersonic speeds. Even with Watanuki's durability, I can't see Wirt not beating him via dodging his blows and punching him in the face when he gets the chance, maybe a couple times.


30: Dante Alighieri: Dante is an adult man and should have higher attack potency and durability than Wirt. He and Vergil travel the diameter of the Earth in 48 hours, a speed feat of 73.6 meters per second on average. That level of speed is likely similar to Wirt meaning that it would essentially be an adult man vs a teen boy, but faster. 


29: Madoka Kaname: So in the first episode Madoka is just a normal girl, however, she does prior to contracting avoid and keep up with familiars and Kyubey who avoids blasts from Homura. She also follows the fight between Sayaka and Kyoko. If you think she at all speed scales to that level of speed she can definitely bring Dante before he'll ever get a hit even if she's not as strong or durable. Also she at one point survives the familiars messing with her and supernaturally stretching her, though that's probably more so just the familiars playing with her rather than a durability feat of hers. 


28: Stanley: Stanley is never implied to get any stronger and can withstand these comically long falls that should give him wall level durability. Nobody prior has any real way to damage him and Madoka would probably wear herself out trying to even if she's way faster. 


27: Frisk: Frisk's stats and abilities are dependent on their current level of DETERMINATION but after the Ruins, Frisk should have a pretty decent level of determination. I imagine Frisk and Stanley probably have pretty similar levels of durability at this point but Frisk has better speed, attack potency, and mental stats as well as probably abilities. Frisk has a few abilities. Stanley might depending on if you think cheats are canon as the Narrator has responses to it. 


26: Cutie Honey: It's not clear if Honey get stronger overtime in the Cutie Honey Manga. That said assuming she's at least as strong as she is by the end of the first of the three canon manga, she probably has at least similar stats to Frisk. Both have scaling between wall to small building level at this point and subsonic to supersonic speeds. The difference is that Honey has far better combat skill and numerous weapons including nitroglycerin acid spit. 


25: Hikaru Shidou: Early MKR scaling can be tricky because the characters get vaguely stronger with their willpower due to the rules of Cephiro and the different pace of the anime and manga. If you're going by the first episode of just the anime, Hikaru doesn't even have a sword, just the fire magic Clef awoke, but this magic was able to fend of Alcyone, and should scale her at least to various large building type feats from the monsters in the anime. If you use just the manga, that scaling isn't there but the chapter does go longer and Hikaru gets her sword and armor. With just the Manga Hikaru would be slower than Honey but still able to react, while with the Anime she'd be faster and still have the reaction speed feats. Manga Only Hikaru has physical stats in the small building range from vaporizing a several meters tall monster. Using Anime timeframe she doesn't have those same physical stats but does have the Large Building Level Flame Arrow. Manga only Hikaru vs Early Honey might be a good fight. Hikaru might have better durability (since Honey in the first manga only might not scale to small bulding level durability) while Honey would have better abilities (fire arrows and speaking to animals vs acid spit and transformation.) Anime Only Hikaru would either melt Honey with Flame Arrow or die to a strike from Honey. If Hikaru has both (and both are written by Clamp), she should win fairly confidently. 


24: Princess Tutu: Tutu fighting is kind of weird as she never actually fights someone so how she would fight is not clear. She scales above Heart Shards with greater power feats than Flame Arrow. She's not as fast as Hikaru if anime feats are allowed for Hikaru but Hikaru would have to wear down Princess Tutu a lot, while Duck can probably hit Hikaru eventually with her reality-warping dance. I don't think her dancing would be an instant win against Hikaru as Willpower in MKR seems to grant some resistance to reality-warping, but it should give her the area of effect to hit Hikaru who usually fights at melee range. 


23: Luz Noceda: So at the start of the series Luz lacks magic and is a physically inept nerd with "weak nerd arms." That said she does have some oddly high physical stats scaling due mostly to being a cartoon character. In the first episode she knocks out a Boiling Isle Prison Warden with a staff, showing that she should at least scale to Boiling Isle Civilians who have a ton of feats and developed differently surviving on the treacherous Boiling Isles. She is likely strong enough to knock out Princess Tutu with a couple blows at most based on Boiling Isles School Children able to slightly impact Kikkimora's mech and is way, way faster based on Piniet able to react to a Light Glyph. Granted Episode 1 Luz is absolutely the type to be entranced and purified in heart by Princess Tutu so it feels like Tutu should win going by their "characters", but that's because Tutu doesn't really "fight" normally and in a fight scenario, Luz should win. 


22: Yusuke Urameshi: Yusuke in the first chapter or episode is a ghost. He would be mutually intangible with everyone prior. He can possess some of them including Luz and have them beat themselves, though some people before can likely resist and it's unlikely he could possess an android like Honey. That said anyone prior would never be able to hit Yusuke and eventually wear themselves out.


21: Yugi Muto: Yugi has the magical powers of the Millennium Puzzle and I think would probably be able to affect a ghost like Yusuke. The Games of Darkness can affect the minds of people and in the ancient past he sealed Ka and Ba spirits in tablets, though it's not clear if he could do that without his memories. Yugi also has defensive abilities that would presumably protect him against most of the characters prior. It's stated the Pharaoh's power protected his entire palace, and there's a page where he seems, at least to me, to phase intangible. Some people interpret it differently though so YMMV. Even without that, if Yugi has his forcefield power and the games of darkness he should be able to beat MOST people here. The only questionable one is Luz, but I think Luz at the start of the series would probably accept a request to play a game instead of fight to win. 


20: Danny Phantom: So Episode 1 Danny would sometimes accidentally switch between human and ghost form, and his power was somewhat inconsistent with his emotional state. Danny's power is relatively high, in the same tier as someone like Princess Tutu and with speed somewhat similar to Luz, so I think he could probably get through Yugi's forcefield and he can obviously get past intangibility. Even if Danny does revert, he does get the benefits of Danny Phantom-verse human feats. If Danny gets into a Game of Darkness with Yugi, Yugi almost certainly wins but I think Danny can probably overwhelm Yugi's defenses. He's basically like Luz against Yugi but with the ability to get around intangibility, and more aggressive as a fighter. 


19: Tiara: Tiara's got higher physical strength and durability than Danny unless he gets into an emotional state as she scales to kiloton level dimension maintaining feats. Danny at this point doesn't even know he can possess people and Tiara can arguably affect ghosts as the demons in Shamanic Princess show ghostlike properties. Danny is definitely faster and he could maybe wear down Tiara, but if he doesn't win fast enough, Danny will eventually revert and Tiara can one-shot him. It really just depends on if you think Tiara gets a solid hit on him and I don't think Danny at this point is skilled enough to avoid any hits from Tiara. 


18: Mew Ichigo: Ichigo's base form doesn't seem to get stronger over the course of the series so she scales to similar kiloton level feats and lightning timing. Ichigo vs Tiara would basically be Ichigo's greater speed vs Tiara's greater skill and teleportation. Personally I think the speed gap is too large, especially given Ichigo can heal herself with Mew Power. 


17: Sakura Kinomoto: Sakura is really not a fighter and her physical strength and durability are way below Ichigo's. That she is able to lightning-time naturally and so should be able to keep up and even in the first chapter/episode she has the Windy, which is an underratedly powerful card. The Windy is one of the elemental cards, equal to the Earthy which can create city-threatening earthquakes. The Windy would probably try to bind Ichigo which I think would probably work. In the manga she also has Wood and Jump in Chapter 1, the latter being able to help her keep up with Ichigo in agility and the former being enough strong card that could hurt or bind Ichigo. Granted if Ichigo gets any hit on Sakura, she would one-shot, but I think Sakura probably wins.


16: Player Wizard: The Player Wizard of Magicka is the finest student of Castle Aldreheim and is a far more experienced and skilled spellcaster. While The Player Wizard's stats are notably weaker than the Windy, they can easily protect themselves with shield while summoning down a meteor shower that will eventually beat Sakura and/or just outlast her as Sakura early on has very limited stamina while the Wizards went through an entire mountain range without stop destroying the goblin civilization. 


15: Minute Man: So I'm not sure what the stats of early Minute Man are as it's an RPG where the characters get stronger mechanically. Freedom Force, even early on, does fight Nuclear Winter so if you think he scales to any level of the power he has at his peak he should be here. Nuclear Winter froze Patriot Park with his power, lowered the temperature of a Cuban Village in Summer to the point there was snow, and likely scales to some fraction of Pan's power which levitated and moved Pan's flying island. If that's the case the Player Wizard doesn't really have attacks in his arsenal that can hurt Minute Man unless you think Death Mana ignores durability cause it's pure entropy. 


14: Feliciano Vargas: Feliciano is the personification of Northern Italy. I don't think Minute Man has the area of effect to do significant damage to Northern Italy before collapsing in exhaustion.


13: Pegasus Seiya: Seiya's got similar stats to Minute Man but higher in both power and speed as he atomized a section of the ground, calced into the upper gigatons and reached the speed of sound as a Bronze Saint before getting faster as well as having better abilities and combat skill. Against Feliciano he may or may not have the ability to actually destroy the nation but Cosmo has the ability to affect abstract concepts so Seiya should be able to just... punch Feliciano. 


12: Panty Anarchy: I'm not sure if Panty's guns can be used against most of the characters here, but she is fast enough to blitz Seiya at the start of SS based on scaling to Stocking who ran around the world for exercise. Her attack potency may or may not be able to overcome Seiya's natural durability but I think if she hits him somewhere like the eye, it probably would work, especially as she has a good luck aura that can counteract the good fortune given by his constellation. Seiya vs Panty really depends on if you think Panty can hurt Seiya at all as either Seiya tanks Panty's attacks and eventually hits her or Panty blitz and overwhelms him with dozens of attacks or accidentally knocks him into space. 


11: Omi: Omi vs Panty is a pretty clearcut one. The two should be similarly powerful if not favoring Omi based on him positively scaling to Jack's digger bots that can "reduce a mountain to rubble", have similar speed based on Omi being much faster than early Clay who can lightning time and keeping up with the Serpent's Tail which quickly travels the radius of the Earth. Omi has much more skill to the point of having precognition from it, and besides that the two don't have many other abilities. Panty's Good Luck Aura might cause Omi problems, but if the two stalemate for a bit due to Omi's Precognition Based Skill and Panty's Good Luck, Omi's definitely got the better stamina with the Dragons even in Season 1 able to search for a Wu nonstop for days with Omi being the only one not tired. 


10: Sailor Moon: Sailor Moon in Chapter 1 has her ultrasonic crying which can threaten a dimension, her tiara throw which can turn people to dust and has retroactive scaling to many FTL feats. Granted in Chapter 1 she's a crybaby and cowardly, but in most scenarios if Sailor Moon sees Omi or anyone prior moving in super slow motion she probably won't be as intimidated and her crying which can hit ghosts or her tiara throw should let her beat anyone here. Omi's Skill and Tiger Instincts might let him get a hit on her, but even if he does the Silver Crystal will automatically act to protect Usagi either teleporting her or forming a barrier around her. 


9: Samus Aran: Even Samus from the start of Metroid 1 scales to Base Ridley who has similar to greater power and speed feats to Sailor Moon. Samus is either equal or a tier above Usagi in both power and speed at the start of their series and even if they are equal has obviously way better mental capabilities and better armaments. 


8: Cure Black: Nagisa doesn't have many abilities and even less without her partner Cure White. That said she is probably similar skilled to Samus and likely even beginning of series scales to Cure Blossom who is stated to be the Weakest Cure in history who has planetary and light-timing feats. Samus might still be faster but Beginning of Series Samus lacks any durability ignoring hax and Cure Black Should be able to tank any of Samus attacks and eventually get a hit in. 


7: Kratos: So I don't think Hydra Fight Kratos has power and durability on par with Start of Futari Wa Nagisa's, though I don't think he's that far behind. Beyond that, he has probably even higher skill being superhumanly skilled, was able to beat an FTL opponent 10 years prior despite them using time manipulation to slow Kratos, and has the Blades of Chaos that drain the lifeforce from the people he hits. To be fair Nagisa's lifeforce is probably quite high as the Monochrome Cures get the power from the Power of Light that exists in all life, but I think Kratos can probably wear Nagisa down with the Blades of Chaos. Granted this is one I went back and forth on. 


6: Yuki Yuna: Yuna herself is much weaker than the last several characters physically speaking. But her fairies create a barrier that can withstand supernova and blackholes. The Blades of Chaos could bypass this by draining Yuna's lifeforce...except I think the Blades have to make contact in order to do so, and beyond that Yuna's lifeforce is maintained by her fairy which is part of the Shinju, a universal divine tree god. There are some people here that hypothetically could do something to Yuna, Yugi could maybe beat Yuna in a Game of Darkness for instance, but this is broadly where I think the Fairy Barrier would most consistently get Yuna. 


5: Bayonetta: Early in Bayonetta, Bayo is still rusty and lacking memories but she still scales to First Sphere Angels that would put her in the same physical range as Kratos and Nagisa but with Kratos' level of skill, time hax, and numerous other hax besides. Now she still wouldn't normally have a way around Yuna's Fairy Barriers, except Bayonetta can move into Purgatory and attack people from another dimension which I think would get around the forcefield in the same way a three-dimensional attack would get around a forcefield facing just in front of someone. 


4: Superman: It's implied that while his feats get much more impressive that Golden Age Superman doesn't get stronger during the Golden Age as when he fights the Kryptonian Criminals Kizo, Mala, and U-Ban despite them reaching Earth that day, they are treated as equal in powers to him. If that's the case he has speeds fast enough to travel into deep space quickly, probably millions of times the speed of light, can time travel, and has multiple stellar feats. I can see Bayo keeping up with Superman via Witch Time and can avoid attacks from him via moving into another dimension, but start of game Bayo doesn't have any weapons that would hurt Kal-L and if he gets a single strike in he wins. 


3: Amaterasu: Amaterasu at the start of the game is much more casually stellar than Kal-L in the Golden Age as she can create a new star or multiple with a dip of the celestial brush which can reach other star systems instantly. Granted if Kal-L time travels she doesn't have a way to counter that, but that's an unusual strategy for him and I don't see him being able to take more then a couple blows from the Celestial Brush.


2: Blossom: It's not clear whether the PPG get significantly stronger across seasons but the entire show happens with a year and they're able to beat up Mojo Jojo even in Season 1, Mojo not being implied to get stronger or anything and able to fight the PPG in later seasons, so they should at least downscale from their later feats. Blossom should be in the same stellar range as Superman and Amaterasu from scaling to HIM and being at least somewhat in the same tier as Monkey due to Justice Friends scaling, and has speeds far higher from nanobot, Justice Friends, and Super Friends scaling meaning she would probably blitz. 


1: Wander: It's not implied Wanders get any stronger over WOY. Wander has speed feats in the same tier or higher then the characters prior, and plugged a galaxy-threatening black hole with his finger. He wins. 



There are a few cases of rock paper scissors here but this was my best attempt to rank them based on who has the best overall matchups against the other characters here. 

Wednesday, August 14, 2024

How I rank the other Stats

 Just made a blog for how I rate Power and Speed so wanted to make a followup blog on how I rate the other stats. What the lesser stats are is kind of contested but broadly I consider them:

-Range (Which can be broken down into sensory range and ability range)

-Intelligence (Which further breaks down in multiple categories)

-Combat Skill (Sometimes considered part of Intelligence)

-Other Relevant Skills (such as Stealth, Agility, etc.)

-Endurance (Which further breaks down into stamina, willpower, resilience etc.)


So to go over them:


Range:

Range is really simple, it's quite literally just a distance with the same values as something like attack potency. Usually, characters have separate sensory range and ability range, though if characters have abilities that work on anything they can perceive then the two can be one and the same. Sense Range can be higher so as a Knight who can see far greater distance than his sword can hit or lower such as someone who can teleport planetary distances but no special senses, though broadly to effectively attack a target one needs both to perceive where they are and to be able to reach them.

There's no obvious way to know what the starting range should be. Broadly I take the character who's ability range is higher and divide that by two. This I think is a fair balance between giving characters who's focus is on range like snipers and marksman the ability to use their range without starting characters at needlessly long range. 


Intelligence:

With intelligence, there's general overall intelligence and then there's intelligence in specific categories. In real life types of intelligence have correlation such that if you are smart in one area you are more likely to be smart in other areas with the strength of the correlation being how close the two areas are to each other. In fiction this obviously doesn't have to be the case. It's easy to imagine a supergenius scientist who has absolutely zero social intelligence. That said I do think the default assumption should be if a character is superhumanly intelligent in one area, they should be relative in other areas of intelligence unless the verse says otherwise due to the tendency of intelligence in one area to correlate with other areas. 

Intelligence for powerscaling tends to focus on three areas and I want to give credit to my friend ThorGundersen1058 who was the one who observed these three categories:

-Scientific Intelligence: The ability to manipulate the general world. 

-Social/Psychological Intelligence: The ability to manipulate other people. 

-Tactical Intelligence: Broadly the ability to effectively strategize and make decisions in dynamic or complex scenarios. 


To rate characters I think there are three broad categories: Subhuman, Human, and Superhuman that I subdivide into five or six categories each:


Subhuman:

-None: Characters genuinely lacks any reactivity to outside stimulus and acts more like a force of nature then a character. An example off the top of my head would be the Colour out of Space which is a malignant color from outer space that spreads and infects without reacting actively to outside stimulus.

-Reactivity: Characters can react to outside stimuli such as a Venus Flytrap which can react to bugs to consume them. The least intelligent animals like Jellyfish or Sponges would be here. Stereotypical zombies would probably be here.

 -Lower Sentience: Characters have intelligence equal to relatively unintelligent animals like Most Insects, Lizards, or Frogs. They have the ability to actually perceive the world and can make decisions based on that as opposed to instinctive reactions. 

-Upper Sentience: Characters have intelligence equal to normal animals such as Felines, Canines, Rodents, etc. All three types of intelligence start being seen here including usage of environment, pack behavior, and basic problem-solving. 

-Lower Sapience: Characters have intelligence equal to smarter animals like Parrots, Ravens, Apes, Octopi, or Elephants. These characters can show all three kinds of intelligence including tool use, using social structures, and/or employing complex problem-solving. Very young humans would likely be here as well.


Human:

-Upper Sapience/Below Average: Intelligence a standard deviation below normal human intelligence or more but still clearly human in intelligence or a relatively young human. This would also be the intelligence of races that are meant to be dumber than humans by a notable degree but are still clearlpy sapient and can communicate with them like stereotypical fantasy orcs or goblins. 

-Average: Intelligence is within the normal bounds for a human

-Above Average/Clever: Intelligence is a standard deviation above normal human intelligence.In Scientific Intelligence this is a character who is as smart as a normal person working in the scientific fields. In Social Intelligence this would be a character who is as smart as someone working in a field requiring social interaction like a salesman or diplomat. In Tactical Intelligence this would be someone who has to engage in broad problem solving and tactical thinking like a chess pro or a police chief. Someone who is Above Average overall is someone who has the intellectual capacity to perform any of these jobs if they tried.  

-Brilliant: Intelligence is two standard deviations above the average and their intelligence is very noticeable, which would be the top 2.5% of humans in the real world. This would be similar to the above except instead of a normal example of each profession, the character would be more akin to a highly qualified and impressive member of the above. 

-Genius/Realistic Genius: Intelligence is three standard deviations or more above the average, or the top 0.13% of humans in the real world, and would be equivalent to the smartest people in a region. Similar to the above, this would be people who are considered some of the best in a region in their field of intelligence or in overall intelligence. 

-Unrealistic Genius/Peak Human/Low Superhuman: Intelligence is five or more standard deviations above the average (1 in a Million) and would be equivalent to some of the smartest people in the world. Some feats of intelligence in the real world sound absolutely made up and what is and isn't peak human vs superhuman in intelligence is very unclear particularly when human intelligence can be easily exaggerated for fictional purposes, so this tier is used for this sort of broad level. 


Superhuman:

-Type 1 Intelligence: Type 1 Intelligences are characters who would be one of the smartest people in a Kardashev 1 Civilization (Planetary to Inter-Planetary.) In Scientific Intelligence these are characters that can create the technology one might expect of a Kardashev 1 Civilization. In Social Intelligence these are characters that are some of the best manipulators in a Type 1 Civilization or can manipulate a Planet to Multiple Planets of realistic humans. In Tactical Intelligence these are characters that are some of the best tacticians in a planetary to inter-planetary populace, or can match the best commanders of such in a tactical challenge. Someone with overall Type 1 Intelligence can hypothetically do all three and/or can process the raw information of an entire planet.

-Type 2 Intelligence: As above but instead with a Kardashev Type 2 (Stellar to Interstellar) Civilization and/or can process the information of a stellar body or system.

-Type 3 Intelligence: As above but instead with a Kardashev Type 3 (Galactic to Intergalactic) Civilization and/or can process the information of a galaxy.

-Type 4 Intelligence: As above but instead with a Kardashev Type 4 (Universal to Interuniversal) Civilization and/or can process the information of a universe. 

-Type 5 Intelligence: As above but instead with a Kardashev Type 5 (Multiversal) Civilization and/or can process infinite information. 


Whether it makes sense to talk about higher is questionable as at some part it's arguably not intelligence so much as a form of cosmic awareness. If knowledge of all things that will ever happen knowledge or precognition? If I was to go higher it would be something like

Metaphysically Infinite: Can process a higher "metaphysical" infinite amount of information.

Conceptually Infinite: Can process a conceptually infinite amount of information

Metaconceptually Infinite: The character's intelligence is treated as above "concepts" but still limited in some regard.

Absolute Intelligence: Character's intelligence is treated as being at one with the ultimate nature of being. 


Skill:

Skills obviously have a lot of overlap with intelligence but to me skills seem to be more specific and tend to be more physical as well as measured in a different way. The most commonly used Skill in Combat would obviously be Combat Skill, one's proficiency at fighting. While skills could be ranked in different ways, the way I categorized skill was deliberately designed to be applicable to any skill that might be used.


F Tier: Superhumanly Unskilled Tier: Characters that are poor at a skill to a degree beyond what humans could be. 

Low F Tier: Conceptually Unskilled: The Character is unskilled on a conceptual level. For Combat Skill this would be for instance a character who is the concept of losing battles.

Mid F Tier: Vastly Superhumanly Unskilled: The Character performs feats that are cartoonishly or cosmically bad at the skill. For combat skill this would be a character who somehow accidentally knocks out their own army. 

High F Tier: Mildly Superhumanly Unskilled: The Character performs feats that are superhumanly bad at the skill but not to a massively dramatic degree. A Character who fights like they're drunk would be an example.


D Tier: Unskilled Tier: The Tier of Normal Humans, Characters who are not proficient at the Skill in particular.

Low D Tier: Below Average: Characters who are below the average human at the skill but still within the general human range. For Combat Skill for instance, a character who's noticably clumsy would be here.

Mid D Tier: Average: The Skill Level of Average Humans.

High D Tier: Above Average: Equivalent to 1-10 Hours of Experience, these are for characters with some basic knowledge of the skill, a natural talent for the skill, or a lot of experience with a skill that is somewhat transferable. For instance, a Professional Athlete might not have any combat experience but would have a lot of experience knowing how to best maneuver his or her body. 


C Tier: Proficient Tier: The Tier of Humans who are Proficient at the Skill. 

Low C Tier: Equivalent to 10-100 Hours of Experience. Amateurs and Rookies at a skill on a professional level. Characters that can make some money at their skill but not a living. For Combat Skill, this would be soldiers who have gone through basic training or something like a militia town guard. 

Mid C Tier: Equivalent to 100-1,000 Hours of Experience. Professional Tier characters who can make a living from their skill. For Combat Skill, this would be professional warriors and soldiers.

High C Tier: Equivalent to 1,000-10,000 Hours of Experience. Elite Tier characters who are considered a tier above normal C Tier characters. For Combat Skill, this would be equivalent to special forces and elite warriors. 


B Tier: Master Tier: Characters that are masters at the skill and would be considered some of the best

Low B Tier: Equivalent to 10,000 Hours to 100,000 Hours of Experience. Characters who are considered masters of a skill and one of the best in a region. 

Mid B Tier: Equivalent to 100,000-1,000,000 Hours of Experience. Grandmasters of a skill who are considered some of the best in the world with a lifetime devoted to the skill. 

High B Tier: Unrealistic/Exaggerated Skill Tier. The feats of the greatest fighters who have lived sound like fiction and so it's not really clear what the boundary of skill for a human is. This would be the Skill of the best fighters in history or the skill of the best fighters in a Type 1 Civilization (Planetary to Interplanetary), which could have a similar population to the number of humans who have ever lived. While these people typically both have a lifetime of practice and huge natural talent, I also think this is where characters with Millions of Hours or Hundreds of Years of Experience even without natural talent would get to if they're an immortal or superhumanly long-aged character.


A Tier: Superhumanly Skilled Tier: Characters that are superhumanly good or are beyond the capacities modern day humans with our understanding of various skills could get too.

Low A Tier: Equivalent to Thousands of Years of Experience. Demonstrates Superhuman Feats of Skill (Examples: Physically beating someone multiple times as big, strong, and fast as you, defeating multiple opponents with your exact powers and abilities at once, etc.) The Best in a Type 2 (Stellar to Interstellar) Civilization. 

Mid A Tier: Equivalent to Millions of Years of Experience. Demonstrates Dramatically or Comically Superhuman Feats of Skill (Examples: Physically beating someone orders of magnitude stronger and faster than you, fighting an army with greater capabilities than you, etc.) The Best in a Type 3 (Galactic to Intergalactic) Civilization. 

High A Tier: Equivalent to Billions of Years of Experience or more. Demonstrates Cosmic Feats of Skill (Examples: Physically beating someone cosmically stronger and faster than you, defeating a planet of creatures with greater capabilities than you, etc.) The best in a Type 4 (Universal to Interuniversal) Civilization


S Tier: Transcendent/Infinitely Skilled Tier: Characters that are infinitely skilled

Low S Tier: Character is infinitely skilled. The most skilled in a Type 5 Civilization (Multiversal.) Can perform literally impossible feats via sheer skill (For Chess Skill for instance this would be something like checkmating with just a King and Knight which is impossible in Chess. For Combat Skill this would be characters that are basically so skilled at fighting it gives them abilities like non-physical interaction or flight even when that isn't something the powers would naturally or logically entail)

Mid S Tier: Character is metaphysically skilled. Character's skill can effect higher planes of reality that are more fundamental than the physical through sheer skill.

High S Tier: Character is conceptually skilled. This would include characters who are the literal concepts of things like warfare or martial arts and the like or characters that scale to them in skill. 


I deliberately tried to make this so it could apply to any skill, though some skills like stealth are usually moreso judged by other stats than the skill itself. Stealth for instance is very often measured by how good sensory range of other characters or objects that the stealth user was able to avoid. That said I think especially when you get higher up, it does look similar to combat skill in how it could be assessed. 


Endurance:

Probably the hardest stat here to quantify as it's several different stats: stamina, pain resistance, injury resistance, and willpower) that are all sort of correlated but different. These are rather hard to quantify, especially willpower, so the categories I would have for Endurance and for each individual category would be like

Subhuman: For characters who have endurance below that of a human

Low Human: For characters who have endurance on the lower end for a human

Average Human: For characters who have endurance around that of an average human

High Human: For characters who have endurance on the upper end for a human

Superhuman: For characters who have endurance that is beyond what a human could realistically have

Infinite: For characters whose endurance qualities are infinite. 

I think you could maybe divide superhuman into Low Superhuman and High Superhuman as feats like "fought for two days" feel like a different category than "fought for 1,000 years straight" but the border would be very vague. 


Strength?

Strength is weird in that the part of strength that's actually useful in a fight is the part that overlaps with attack potency and the other aspects of strength are less useful than even the secondary stats mentioned above. 

Strength, talking about arm strength usually, is divided usually into lifting strength and striking strength, the former in real life being determined by the mass of one's muscles and the latter by the kinetic energy of the fist moving at a speed. So it's possible in real life to have wonky striking strength to lifting strength ratios if the character is really bulky but for some reason moves really slow or not very bulky but moving quickly though for obvious reasons the two tend to be correlated a lot similar to the parts of Endurance. 

Striking Strength is basically just one form of Attack Potency. Lifting Strength is measured in weight and goes up to infinite where it just merges with the the attack potency form of strength



Obviously, I'm not suggesting anyone should definitely use my criteria for assessing these other stats, this is just how I try to compare characters and I hope it gave some ideas on how you can organize them if you are trying to figure out how to. 

Tuesday, August 13, 2024

My Power/Speed Standards

 I wanted to make a quick blog giving my values for what power/speed categories. My values don't really match any wiki, though for the most part until you get to the high tiers it's really just describing numbers in a different way. If you focus on the numbers the "level" you call it is irrelevant. That said I view the numbers calced as usually much more of an approximate then most people do it seems. A lot of people in the powerscaling community treat a 2x gap in calcs as a substantial difference when to me for most calcs that seems a margin of error difference as most calcs involving estimating on a number of unknowns. 

My values are mostly focused on making these levels as regular as possible. I feel the powerscaling community has adopted a lot of levels of unnecessarily like "small city level" when that could just be a lower bound for city level or a moon/small planet level distinction when most moons separated from their planet would be a small planet. I wanted my levels to be as intuitive as real life allows, focusing on having each subsection be equidistant from each other so it creates an intuitive sense on the gap between tiers. 


Power Tiers:


None: Literally 0 energy like a character with a non-physical form that can't affect the physical world at all.

(A large number of tiers below human level are here, though these are used so rarely and are so common I don't feel the need to go into them all)


Human Level: 100 Joules to 1,000 Joules, The Strength of Real World Humans, if needed this tier can be subdivided into three subtiers, to make them equidistant you just take the cube root of 10, the gap between the lower bound and upper bound. which is about 2.15.

Low Human Tier: 100-215 Joules: Average Human Level

Mid Human Tier: 215-464 Joules: Athlete Level

High Human Tier: 464-1,000 Joules/1 Kilojoule: Elite Athlete Tier


Peak Human/Superhuman: 1 Kilojoules to 4.184 Kilojoules (1 Millionth a Ton of Tnt). This is the most nebulous category as what the strength/durability humans can get to is unclear particularly in a high pressure situation. Kicks tend to have more energy then punches and people can survive more energy dispersed over a larger part of their body then a smaller part. I chose the somewhat arbitrary 4.184 Kilojoules as a stopping part as kicks don't seem to reach this level even from elites and it makes the levels above very neat.


Wall Level: 4.184 Kilojoules (0.000001 Tons of TNT) to 4.184 Megajoules (0.001 Tons of TNT), I think vs wiki increased the energy to destroy a wall based on the energy of bullets which don't tend to destroy walls. I don't agree with this at all as the reason bullets are so destructive is based of how focused they are on a single point and not due to raw energy along. But to each their own. This is where tiers get large enough that where in the tier they are becomes relevant to me. Characters in the same subtier to me seem to be in the same area of power (one might be a few times stronger but both should be able to survive attacks from the other and have the capacity to kill each other hitting a vulnerable area) while ones that are a subtier apart seem to me to have a substantial gap (around an order of magnitude) and two an immense gap (multiple orders of magnitude.)

Low Wall Level: 4.184 Kilojoules to 41.84 Kilojoules

Mid Wall Level: 41.84 Kilojoules to 418.4 Kilojoules

High Wall Level: 418.4 Kilojoules to 4.184 Megajoules (One Thousandth of a Ton of TNT)


Small Building Level: 4.184 Megajoules (0.001 Tons of TNT) to 4.184 Gigajoules (1 Ton)

Low Small Building Level: 4.184 Megajoules (0.001 Tons) to 41.84 Megajoules (0.01 Tons)

Mid Small Building Level: 41.84 Megajoules (0.01 Tons) to 418.4 Megajoules (0.1 Tons)

High Small Building Level: 418.4 Megajoules (0.1 Tons) to 4.184 Gigajoules (1 Ton of TNT)


Large Building Level: 1 Ton of TNT to 1 Kiloton of TNT. I don't understand the purpose of having building level, large building level, city block level, and multi-city block level, especially when the destruction of very large buildings like skyscrapers or immense castles tend to reach into the city block ro multi-city block ranges anyway. So to me City Block and Multi-City Block can just be alternate names for Mid or High Large Building Level.

Low Large Building Level: 1 Ton-10 Tons

Mid Large Building Level/City Block Level: 10 Tons-100 Tons

High Large Building Level/Multi-City Block Level: 100 Tons-1 Kiloton


From here a very familiar structure will arise


Town Level: 1 Kiloton to 1 Megaton.

Low Town Level: 1 Kiloton to 10 Kilotons

Mid Town Level: 10 Kilotons to 100 Kilotons

  • The Earliest Nuclear Bombs were 15-21 Kilotons

High Town Level: 100 Kilotons to 1 Megaton


City Level: 1 Megaton to 1 Gigaton

Low City Level: 1 Megaton to 10 Megatons

Mid City Level: 10 Megatons to 100 Megatons

  • The Tsar Bomba is 50 Megatons

High City/Mountain Level: 100 Megatons to 1 Gigaton

  • Energy to destroy Largest Cities is within the Hundreds of Megatons


Island Level: 1 Gigaton to 1 Teraton

Low Island Level: 1 Gigaton to 10 Gigatons

Mid Island Level: 10 Gigatons to 100 Gigatons

High Island Level: 100 Gigatons to 1 Teraton


Country Level: 1 Teraton to 1 Petaton

Low Country Level: 1 Teraton to 10 Teratons

Mid Country Level: 10 Teratons to 100 Teratons

High Country Level: 100 Teratons to 1 Petaton


Continent Level: 1 Petaton to 1 Exaton

Low Continent Level: 1 Petaton to 10 Petatons

Mid Continent Level: 10 Petatons to 100 Petatons

High Continent Level: 100 Petatons to 1 Exaton


Small Planet/Planetoid Level: 1 Exaton to 1 Zettaton

Low Small Planet Level: 1 Exaton to 10 Exatons

  • Gravitational Binding Energy of Pluto: 1.4 Exatonsw

Mid Small Planet Level: 10 Exatons to 100 Exatons

  • Gravitational Binding Energy of the Moon: 29.6 Exatons

High Small Planet Level: 100 Exatons to 1 Zettaton

  • Gravitational Binding Energy of Mercury: 433 Exatons


Planet Level: 1 Zettaton to 1 Yottaton

Low Planet Level: 1 Zettaton to 10 Zettatons

  • Gravitational Binding Energy of Mars: 1.144 Zettatons

Mid Planet Level: 10 Zettatons to 100 Zettatons

  • Gravitational Binding Energy of the Earth: 57.3 Zettatons

High Planet Level: 100 Zettatons to 1 Yottaton


Large Planet Level: 1 Yottaton to 1 Ninaton 

Low Large Planet Level: 1 Yottaton to 10 Yottatons

  • Gravitational Binding Energy of Uranus: 2.7 Yottatons

Mid Large Planet Level: 10 Yottatons to 100 Yottatons

High Large Planet Level: 100 Yottatons to 1 Ninaton

  • Gravitational Binding Energy of Jupiter: 482 Yottatons

After this is the stellar ranges and that's when things get less neat unfortunately. The energy needed to destroy a main sequence star like the Sun is a relatively small range, there's a shift from tons to Foe as a unit eventually, and the energy needed to destroy a Star System is contested with lower bound values being a few Foe to upper bounds of dozens of Foe. but this is how I think of it:

Dwarf Star Level: 1 Ninaton to 1 Tenaton (Roughly the range to affect Brown Dwarfs)

Low Dwarf Star Level: 1 Ninaton to 10 Ninatons

Mid Dwarf Star Level: 10 Ninatons to 100 Ninatons

High Dwarf Star Level: 100 Ninatons to 1 Tenaton


Star Level: 1 Tenaton to 1 Tenakiloton

Low Star Level: 1 Tenaton to 10 Tenatons

  • Gravitational Binding Energy of VB 10, the Smallest Known Star: 3 Tenatons
Mid Star Level: 10 Tenatons to 100 Tenatons

High Star Level: 100 Tenatons to 1 Tenakiloton

  • Gravitational Binding Energy of the Sun: 165 Tenatons
I will say as a result of this characters that can destroy "stars" without context are treated as significantly weaker than ones that can destroy the Sun which isn't the case with "planetbusters" vs characters that can destroy "The Earth." This is a consequence of putting stars of multiple types in the same tier, though otherwise they would be very small tiers relatively speaking.


Large Star Level: 1 Tenakiloton to 10 Foe (About 240 Tenakilotons), so as a result of being a non-neat number this tier's values are not as neat as prior ones, but that's the result of using two different energy values like Tons and Foe. 

Low Large Star Level: 1 Tenakiloton to 4.88 Tenakilotons

Mid Large Star Level: 4.88 Tenakilotons to 23.9 Tenakilotons/1 Foe 

High Large Star Level: 1 Foe to 10 Foe

  • Supernova: 1 Foe 

Star System Level: 10 Foe to 10 KiloFoe 

Low Star System Level: 10 Foe to 100 Foe

Mid Star System Level: 100 Foe to 1 KiloFoe

  • Hypernova: 100 Foe 

High Star Level: 1 KiloFoe to 10 KiloFoe 

  • Gravitational Binding Energy of Neutron Stars: 7.612 KiloFoe

Small Galaxy Level: This tier goes from the binding energy of the smallest galaxies of 10 KiloFoe to the binding energy of the Milky Way Galaxy at 10 GigaFoe. In reality most galaxy busts in fiction are a lot more energy wiping out the stars rather then just causing the galaxy to scatter but I would compare this to the difference between overcoming the gravitional binding energy of a planet, and what happens more often in fiction of vaporizing it. Because this tier contains a gap of 1,000,000x as opposed to 1,000x, each subtier is larger containing a gap of 100x as opposed to 10x.

Low Small Galaxy Level: 10 KiloFoe to 1 MegaFoe

Mid Small Galaxy Level: 1 MegaFoe to 100 MegaFoe

High Small Galaxy Level: 100 MegaFoe to 10 GigaFoe 


Galaxy Level: 10 GigaFoe to 10 Terafoe. The energy needed to destroy the Milky Way and Andromeda the nearest other large galaxy has been estimated at upper end hundreds of times the energy to destroy just one which to me suggests that the Galaxy Level Range is about 1,000x.

Low Galaxy Level: 10 GigaFoe to 100 GigaFoe

Mid Galaxy Level: 100 GigaFoe to 1 TeraFoe

High Galaxy Level: 1 TeraFoe to 10 TeraFoe


Multi-Galaxy Level: Multi-Galaxy Level ends at Universal, which is a level I'm skeptical of quantification methods as the size of the universe is unknown and could be infinite, encompassing any other physical quantification. That for a lower bound, the mass-energy of the observable universe is what I use as the end of Multi-Galaxy Level. This is 4e69 joules, which is 4 trillion times greater than than 10 TeraFoe making this level enormous and each subtier able to engulf prior tiers. There aren't many characters in this tier though so dividing into more tiers seems excessive, with each subtier having a gap over 10,000x. 

Low Multi-Galaxy Level: 10 TeraFoe to 158.75 PetaFoe

Mid Multi-Galaxy Level: 158.75 PetaFoe to 2.52 ZettaFoe

High Multi-Galaxy Level: 2.52 ZettaFoe to 40 YottaFoe


From here levels are more descriptive then quantitative.


Universe Level: 

Low Universe Level/Observable Universe Level: This is the level of characters that can destroy anywhere from a space equivalent to the observable universe of 93.7 billion lightyears across to the lower bound estimate for the size of the total universe at tens of trillions of lightyears, hundreds of times larger.

Mid Universe Level: This is the level for characters who can destroy a universe, rather then just the observable one varying in estimates of size from tens of trillions of lightyears as a lower bound to a size between 10^23 to 10^26 times the size of the observable universe, which is an estimated size for the total universe using inflationary theories. Because we are to assume fictional universes are like ours except when denoted, I presume all fiction universes in their entirety are the size of ours which means that unless a universe is noted as being above the above values, I don't consider it particularly large, hence my distaste to the latest trend of "universe scaling"

High Universe Level/Macrocosmic: The higher estimates for the size of the universe go from the above values up to the infinite and include such values as 10^10^10^120 lightyears, a comically sized universe I've never seen a fictional series surpass in finite size. This subtier is what I use to mean for structures that are clearly meant to be beyond even normal universes including some theological constructs that are meant to dwarf the universe such as the size of Amitabha which does indeed get larger than 10^26 times the size of the observable universe. Sometimes universes or parts of them are called "infinite" even when they are still by the necessity of mathematical definitions finite. In such case I presume they are here as the largest models of the universe suggest it is infinite. 


Physically Infinite: This is the tier for characters with infinite power, in that they can create or endure infinite energy. Infinity Joules, Infinite Tons, Infinite Foe, they are all equal. Some infinities are larger or smaller than other infinities however it is mathematically impossible for an infinity to be finitely greater or smaller, and if a fiction depicts characters with "infinite power" being finitely stronger or weaker then each other or a space being finitely larger or smaller then each other, then it must be understood they are using infinity in a not-strictly mathematical way. This is the highest energy, a physical quantity, can be quantified, though it's possible to have metaphysical infinities that are superior, infinities that are more "fundamental" or "real" then others. In real life differently sized infinities are abstract mathematical concepts, but fiction will often refer to characters with power that can affect metaphysical things directly.


Metaphysically Infinite: Above the Physically Infinite are Characters whose power can affect a metaphysically more real infinity, one that is treated as a higher plane of reality. Characters here can hypothetically be finitely stronger or weaker then each other, it's just unquantifiable as metaphysical stuff is by its nature not physically quantifiable. If a series says that the infinity of the heart is bigger than the infinity of space, that's a perfectly coherent statement, but it can't really be quantified, and trying to quantify it causes the paradoxes of doing arithmetic with infinite quantities to emerge. 


Conceptually Infinite: Battleboarding style powerscaling has a strange idea I found contrary to what I find as logical and what happens in fiction: namely that for the strongest of characters only power matters. To me power is a concept like space or time and can be transcended in the same sense. Characters in this tier have power equivalent to the concept of power or the concept of infinity, such that a greater degree of power is not conceptually imaginable. For example if a character is the very concept of infinity, their power would presumably be not just infinity but any conceptual form of infinity.


Metaconceptually Infinite: This is for character whose power is depicted as transcending or being "above" all concepts including the ideas of power or infinity, but paradoxically not at one with absolute reality. For instance if a series has a realm containing all concepts and then a metafictional realm transcending that where characters are metafictionally realer then the conceptual, and have their own meta concepts that are to concepts what concepts are normally to physical things, then affecting that realm is Metaconceptually Infinite.


Absolute Power: This highest tier of power is when the character's power participates in the Absolute, Reality beyond any concepts or metaconcepts, the ultimate and most fundamental reality. 


Speed Tiers, starting at Human Level:

The speed a human can reach is actually somewhat unclear as it depends on the duration. Google suggests the Average Man can run at roughly 8 mph or ~3.57 meters per second and the Average Woman at roughly 6.5 mph or ~2.9 meters per second. Usain Bolt reached the world record speed of 12.42 meters per second, with his average speed in the same race of 10.438 meters per second. Of note is that punches and kicks which are relevant to how fast someone fights tend to reach higher values with the fastest punch being 20 meters per second and the fastest kick being at an incredible 61 meters per second. Peak Human reactions seem to also be roughly 3x faster then normal human reaction time (300 Milliseconds for someone on the lower end of reaction time to 100 Milliseconds for upper end). 

I tried to find a best line of match and this is roughly how I understand with each being equidistant from the last until subsonic:

Human Speeds: 3.4-7.3 Meters Per Second (1x to 2.15x Human Speeds and Reactions)

Upper Human/Peak Human-ish Speed: 7.3-15.78 Meters Per Second (2.15-4.64x Human Speeds and Reactions), this represents I think the general range that fiction uses to represent peak human type characters.

  • Speeds of many fast land animals like cats, dogs, and horses

Superhuman: 15.78-34 Meters Per Second (~Mach 0.1), 4.64x-10x Human Speeds and Reactions


Subsonic: Mach 0.1-Mach 1, this describes your stereotypical faster than the eye character. Cheetahs the fastest land animals can just barely reach into this tier. 

Low Subsonic: Mach 0.1-Mach 0.215

  • Middle Age Arrows were typically launched at this speed
  • Cheetahs top speeds have reached Mach 0.104, though this is unusually fast even for them

Mid Subsonic: Mach 0.215-Mach 0.464

  • Fastest Arrow Speed and Early Bullet Speed
  • The Fastest Birds have reached this speed

High Subsonic: Mach 0.464-Mach 1

  • Slowest Modern Bullet Speeds


Hypersonic: Mach 1-Mach 100, this speed tier contains 100x gap, so each subtier contains a gap of the cube root of 100 which is 4.64.

Supersonic/Low Hypersonic: Mach 1-Mach 4.64

  • Most Modern Bullets

Mid Hypersonic: Mach 4.64-Mach 21.5

  • The Fastest Bullets reach Mach 4.96

High Hypersonic: Mach 21.5-Mach 100

  • Escape Velocity of Earth: Mach 32.55


Massively Hypersonic: Mach 100 to Mach 8,720 (1% c). It's a little bit unneat due to the Speed of Light being an unneat Mach number.

Low Massively Hypersonic: Mach 100 to Mach 443

  • The Speed of Lightning Bolts in the real world are at least this fast

Mid Massively Hypersonic: Mach 443 to Mach 1,966

High Massively Hypersonic: Mach 1,966-Mach 8,720


Relativistic: From 1% of c to c, the speed of light in a vacuum

Low Relativistic: 1% of c-4.64% of c 

Mid Relativistic: 4.64% of c-21.5% of c

High Relativistic: 21.5% of c to c


After this you get into FTL and there isn't really categories since nothing in the real world moves faster than c, or at least in most senses of the word.


As such from here it gets just into blocks of a thousand.


FTL: 1-1,000c

Low FTL: 1-10c

Mid FTL: 10-100c

High FTL: 100-1,000c


MFTL: 1,000-1,000,000c

Low MFTL: 1,000c-10,000c

Mid MFTL: 10,000c-100,000c

High MFTL: 100,000c-1,000,000c


MFTL+: 1,000,000c-1 Billion c

Low MFTL+: 1 Million c to 10 Million c

Mid MFTL+: 10 Million c to 100 Million c

High MFTL+: 100 Million c to 1 Billion c


MFTL++: 1 Billion c to 1 Trillion c

Low MFTL++: 1 Billion c to 10 Billion c

Mid MFTL++: 10 Billion c to 100 Billion c

High MFTL++: 100 Billion c to 1 Trillion c


etc. 


It's quite rare to see anything beyond MFTL+++++ (Quintillions of times the speed of light) because even traveling the radius or diameter of the entire observable universe is low quintillions of times the speed of light, it requires a very weird kinda feat to get higher. MFTL and MFTL+ are also both just sort of shorthand for much faster than light. 


Above these are infinite speeds.


Infinite Speed: Character can move an infinite distance in a finite time. As per Infinite Power, characters can't be finitely faster or slower then physically infinite speed due to the nature of infinity.


Metaphysically Infinite Speed: Can cross a space that is some more real and fundamental infinity in finite time.


Conceptually Infinite Speed: Character's speed scales to the concepts of infinity or speed themselves.


Metaconceptually Infinite Speed: Character's speed transcends normal concepts


Absolute Speed: Character's speed participates in the Absolute Reality transcending all concepts.