Who was stronger, Sailor Saturn or Super Sailor Moon (Infinity Arc)

The Sailor Moon Fandom isn't, as a rule, super into vs debating. There's a bit of it much in the way there is for most series with supernatural powers, but if you ask the average moonie their opinion on most potential SM battles, if it's not obvious, there isn't much in the way of intensive opinions. I can pretty safetly say I know about everyone major who scales SM if only because there aren't that many. The only SM vs topic that really drums up interest is strongest guardian senshi. However I'm old enough to remember back in the earlier days of the SM Fandom, back in the 90s there was another matchup that was controversial. As of the third arc it was who was stronger between the main character Sailor Moon (who had attained a greater "Super" Form), or the legendary Sailor Saturn. 

This matchup was quite controversial in part because the two are thematically opposed in the third arc; the Messiah of Light and the Messiah of Darkness, and because in general it's somewhat hard to tell who was stronger in the arc itself, there's no clear comparison. There's a bunch of other reasons the two are opposed, the two are introduced formally in the same act, both have powers related to healing and life, the talismans glowed together to awaken both even calling it the same glow, and even the Death-Busters, enemies of the arc were unsure of who was the true threat. I have read the SM manga many times and I think I have come to enough of an understanding of the series to really dissect this matchup.

I'm going to quickly explain each character, than give each the arguments for each character (and possible counter-arguments) before giving my opinion. Because spoilers, I think you can make an argument for either side, and it's moreso which side's arguments you find more compelling. Also this is specifically the characters as of the final act of the third arc of the manga. Super Sailor Moon gets a degree stronger within the third arc and this is specifically her strongest. This is manga-canon as the anime has wholly different scaling due to having basically a totally different plot. Finally this is about who has more raw power, not who'd win necessarily. Both characters have a fair degree of magical hax powers, but this is a question of who had more raw stellar energy. 

Protected by the planet of destruction Saturn, Sailor Saturn is the soldier of ruin, of silence. She appears in the moment of doom with the purpose of bringing about the end of all life, resetting the path of life

She is awoken to signal the end of the age, and in the ancient Silver Millennium when her powers were used, the evolution of life had to completely begin again. For this accursed role she is eternally the unwelcome guest, feared by all.

However despite her role as Harbinger of Death, she was befriended by the young princess Chibiusa, who felt Hotaru's sadness and believed in their friendship despite knowing her role. 

The faith that the Moon Soldiers gave to her, allowed her to be reborn transcended of her ancient role like with the other Outer Senshi no longer needing to fight alone

Sailor Saturn's presence is immensely felt throughout the third arc, the very first words of the arc being a description by Pharaoh 90 of the incredible energy that would be revealed to be hers, and Sailor Saturn eventually being the one to defeat Pharaoh 90

While it was clear she was the strongest of the Sailor Senshi in their base forms.... could a super senshi be stronger?

Usagi Tsukino, otherwise known as Sailor Moon is the main character of the series. Her Sailor Crystal is the Legendary Silver Crystal, the source of all energy that gives dominion over the universe and the ultimate power of the universe

The Silver Crystal's power isn't a constant that maybe gets external buffs like the power of the other sailor crystals, the Silver Crystal's power is entirely dependent on the heart of it's user to work

This was done by the author so that Usagi's personal growth can mirror her power growth. As she becomes a stronger, more confident person with more control over her heart, her power can narratively grow as well. 

In the third arc it is introduced that when Neo-Queen Serenity (the future Sailor Moon) was younger, she used a Holy Grail, which would bestow her with powers whenever there was a crisis event

A few acts later, when the villain Cyprine is manipulating the Guardian and Outer Senshi to fighting each other with her powers, Sailor Moon says that even though they are fighting, their hearts are still as one and all their powers go to Sailor Moon transforming into Super Sailor Moon, all the Senshis' broochs transforming into hearts together to reflect that their hearts are the same

This is a power derived from their hearts' unity. This likely works because as stated in the first arc, the Silver Crystal's power depends on the condition of the heart. When the Guardian Senshis' souls are taken, the unity is broken and Usagi depowers to her base form.

Near the end of the Third Arc, Usagi draws a power from the Holy Grail she calls "the ultimate power of the Nine Sailor Senshi"

she uses this to plunge within Pharaoh 90, the power of the Holy Grail and Silver Crystal reviving Sailor Saturn, trusting her to save the world. Super Sailor Moon emerges from Pharaoh 90 at her strongest.

There Sailor Saturn speaks to her saying that because she released the power of the Holy Grail, the planet can be saved before sacrificing her to destroy Pharaoh 90 without destroying the world

After releasing the power of the Holy Grail, Super Sailor Moon is a Senshi with the mysterious holy power that stops crisis, but does she have the power to stop the greatest crisis of the Sailor Moon universe, the awakening of the Soldier of Silence, Sailor Saturn?

I'm going to go over the arguments for both that I can think off, along with any counterarguments I can think of. Both characters have about 5 arguments for them being stronger that I could think off, and these are them presented roughly in order of least to most compelling for me

Arguments for Sailor Saturn:

The Outer Senshi argument:

Sailor Saturn and Super Sailor Moon are introduced together in Act 33 as a parallel. However when the Outer Senshi are describing Sailor Saturn and how she is an unstoppable threat, their greatest mission be to keeping her from awakening, they are doing so immediatly after seeing Super Sailor Moon's first transformation to Super Sailor Moon herself.

which you can use to conclude they think Sailor Saturn is stronger than Super Sailor Moon.

There's two problems with this argument, a minor counter-arguments, and a major counter-argument.

The Outer Senshi may simply not know the depth of Super Sailor Moon's power. While they can sense energy, that doesn't mean they have a perfect ability to sense power levels especially as Super Sailor Moon gets stronger.

More importantly however is that the point of this scene is that the Outer Senshi think, and are correct in their assessment, that the Guardian Senshi are not "strong" enough to kill an innocent child to save the universe. A major theme of the third arc is childish idealism and deontology represented by Sailor Moon and the Guardian Senshi vs adult cynicism and utilitarianism represented by the Outer Senshi. Immediatly after the Outer Senshi directly say that they didn't involve the Guardians as allies because they knew they wouldn't be able to go through with what they see as needed to save the world.

As such the Outers may believe Super Sailor Moon has the capacity to stop Sailor Saturn, but not the will to do so before Saturn ends all life.

Usagi's worry Argument:

On a very similar vein, Super Sailor Moon worries briefly that when Sailor Saturn awakens, the world will end

However Usagi hasn't seen Sailor Saturn yet, and has no idea of her power. Usagi's a nervous unconfident person whose only information on Sailor Saturn was the Outer Senshis' prior explanation of her and the vague dreams of doom she's been having so her being nervous about it is quite understandable.

Powered Mistress 9 argument:

So this is the argument that vs battles wiki uses currently to say that Base Saturn is "far" stronger than Super Sailor Moon. Basically the argument is that Super Moon and Chibi-Moon aren't actually that that strong relatively speaking at the battle with Pharaoh 90 and Mistress 9 as they withstand their attacks of the Super Sailor Senshi, Mistress 9 seemingly pushing against it

This would obviously mean that Sailor Saturn is stronger as she was far stronger than Pharaoh 90 after absorbing Mistress 9.

However not only is this not the end of third arc Super Moon I'm talking about (she hasn't yet released the power of the Holy Grail), I don't think Mistress 9 and Pharaoh 90 had power comparable to the Super Senshi in this scene. This to me seems to be entirely a matter of their energy absorption, and even in this battle Mistress 9 still thinks the energy of the Senshi is amazing and is happy to absorb it

Earlier in the arc, Usagi just transforming into Super Sailor Moon for the first time was over 10,000 times stronger than the Taioron Crystal at it's maximum.

While it's true Mistress 9 and Pharaoh 90 get stronger from Mistress 9 consuming the Silver Crystal, they describe the power as thousands of times stronger than a human soul, stronger than the current Taioron Crystal by a wide margin

with human souls being stated to be unable to compare to the light power of Base Sailor Moon's power constantly stated to be near the modern dying out Taioron Crystal's power

while Mistress 9 could be lowballing their power increase, it seems that:

Super Sailor Moon's Initial Transformation>Tens of Thousands x>Peak Taioron Crystal

Powered up Mistress>Thousands x>Human Souls

Dying out Taioron Crystal far > Human Souls

suggesting to me that even with her new power Mistress 9 should at best be like an order of magnitude weaker than Super Sailor Moon's energy blast. The other option is you could say the Henshin just releases a relatively large energy compared to normal attacks, as in the first arc transformation is called the strongest and most holy of the Senshis' powers

However given the initial Super Sailor Moon scene emphasized Super Sailor Moon was tanking her own transformation energy, I find it hard to believe that this energy is far stronger, if at all, than her own attacks

So personally I don't think that Mistress 9 and Pharaoh 90 really scale to Super Sailor Moon at all, I think they were just absorbing their energy as Usagi says

Lifting Pharaoh 90 Argument:

Now we're getting to what I consider the good Saturn arguments. At one point of their battle, Sailor Saturn's power lifts Pharaoh 90 off the ground sending him back to the Tau Nebula

This is relevant as earlier this act, Super Sailor Moon had released the power of the Holy Grail and charged Pharaoh 90 and while she succeeds in awakening Sailor Saturn, her power only somewhat seems to disturb Pharaoh 90's form

There's a rather simplified argument, the intuitive argument, for Saturn that basically goes "Sailor Saturn beat Pharaoh 90 who Super Sailor Moon" couldn't beat and I think this is the best version of the intuitive argument. Whiel earlier Super Sailor Moon hadn't released the power of the Holy Grail, and so wasn't yet at her peak, this is post-release Super Sailor Moon who should be at her peak in the third arc therefore.

The more general reason I don't agree with the intuitive argument is it seems even in the earier part of the fight Super Sailor Moon had more power than Pharaoh 90, she just couldn't get past his energy absorption. Conversely, Sailor Saturn's negative aura was canceling out Pharaoh 90, so it's less like Sailor Saturn was more powerful than Super Sailor Moon, but could get past a resistance that Super Sailor Moon couldn't. However if you take the argument that Holy Grail Super Sailor Moon actually did mildly get past Pharaoh 90's absorption, than the fact that she didn't do substantial damage to Pharaoh 90, while Saturn could do substantial damage would suggest that Saturn was stronger. 

I'm not sure about this argument but I do think it's a viable argument. It depends whether you think of Pharaoh 90's energy assimilation as reducing damage from energy by X amount by assimilating X damage or it works by just assimilating all energy save for negative energy. If you think it reduces the energy he is impacted by X amount, then Super Sailor Moon mildly disrupting his form suggests she got slightly over X amount while Saturn easily raising him into the sky suggests she got far above X amount. Conversely you could also look at the scan and thinks it's just a visual effect to represent Super Sailor Moon's shining form entering Pharaoh 90, and disappearing within.

The Energy Surpression Argument:

After Mistress 9 eats the Silver Crystal and starts powering up, Hotaru who has been reduced to just a soul, to protect her precious friend Chibiusa's soul and her Silver Crystal surpresses the power of the Silver Crystal.

This was a power that was considered a substantial power increase to Mistress 9 and Pharaoh 90...

This is an insane feat of power for Hotaru, especially as she hadn't yet awoken as a Senshi. 

Pharaoh 90 and Mistress 9 compare favorably in power compared to Base Sailor Moon, even full power Sailor Moon as of the third arc, meaning that Ghost Hotaru>Third Arc Base Sailor Moon. This is supported by the fact that the Omega Area, the energy of the area the Death-Busters were pursueing since the first words of the arc is revealed to Pharaoh 90's horror to have been the energy of Sailor Saturn sleeping, Hotaru's energy.

This doesn't necessarily mean that Sailor Saturn>Super Sailor Moon but it does suggest that for Super Sailor Moon to be stronger, that the Super transformation has to be stronger than the Base transformation.

There's no direct comparison between the two transformations, but while the Super transformation makes one 10,000x times stronger the Base Transformation turned normal humans into Sailor Senshi, the Cosmic Guardians who protect the planets, can destroy dimensions, and fight people who can create storms across nations or drain them of energy

While after awakening as a Senshi, the Senshi do get stronger and show superhuman feats even in civilian form after awakening, Hotaru at this point has not awoken, and her energy is already on the very upper end of the Third Arc. If this is accepted I think the very fair conclusion is that Sailor Saturn would probably be stronger than Super Sailor Moon just on the basis that the Base Henshin seems far more substantial than even the Super Henshin.

That said, you could argue that Hotaru being a ghost or it being her body that Mistress 9 was possessing was why she could surpress the energy and that Pharaoh 90 was really sensing the energy of the Saturn that was within Hotaru, her higher self

After all normal human souls are strong enough that thousands of them together would apparently have a power that would substantially power up Mistress 9, and the Death-Busters target the souls of somewhere in the range of dozens to hundreds of souls at once for Pharaoh 90 and according to Tellu the souls of Senshi have more energy than normal people

Arguments for Super Sailor Moon:

The Super Upgrade Argument:

When Super Sailor Moon emerges from Pharaoh 90, her power upgrades 7 Base Sailor Senshi to Super forms, showing the depth of her power growth over the third arc

The argument goes that in the Dream Arc Hotaru only empowered 4 Senshi to turn into their super forms, herself included, and that she needed the Holy Grail and Saturn Crystals to do so

While kind of a clever argument, the major problem with it in my opinion is that Hotaru never actually says or is shown to need the Saturn Crystal or Holy Grail to change the Senshi to their super forms,  she shows the Saturn Crystal as a sign that they Outer Sensi had been reborn without the duties and solitude of their past lives by their Princess

and uses the Holy Grail to show an image that their Prince and Princess were in danger

Pharaoh 90 Impression Argument:

So this argument is based on the fact that Pharaoh 90 seemed massively more impressed and frightened by Super Sailor Moon's power than Sailor Saturn's. When Super Sailor Moon just transformed Pharaoh 90 was terrified and proclaimed it like the light of Heaven

Pharaoh 90 doesn't seem nearly as scared when Sailor Saturn appears not commenting at all at first, only starting to fear when Sailor Saturn starts using durability ignoring powers on him like paralyzing him with her glaive.

The level of impressed a character seems is kind of subjective and while I kinda agree that Pharaoh 90 seemed more afraid of Super Sailor Moon, it's not really a fair comparison as between the two points Pharaoh 90 had grown stronger from Mistress 9 giving him some of the energy of the Silver Crystal and later from assimilating Mistress 9 instantly breaking the barrier that was containing him until that point

Plus from Pharaoh 90's point of view, he had just beaten the holders of stellar protection, the Sailor Senshi, who had been one of the only two things that could threaten his plans, including the Super Senshi he was so threatened by initially, what does the appearence of one more Super Sailor Senshi mean to him?

The Talisman Glow Argument:

It's a recurring point in the third arc that the Three Talismans will resonate together, signaling the coming of only one of two people; Super Sailor Moon or Sailor Saturn. 

After Super Sailor Moon's first henshin, however there's an odd statement by Sailor Pluto suggesting that the Talismans glowed more than they had ever done

the argument are the three talismans are the three items whose glow illuminate the path to ruin, and that as they glowed for Super Sailor Moon more than they did for Sailor Saturn, that she is a greater response to a threat than Sailor Saturn.

While I think you could argue this, the major problem is that there's not really enough known about the Talismans. Another interpretation for the Talisman's glow is that the Talismans, representing the Outers' hearts, were showing their approval of Sailor Moon and her ideals. The point of the scene is that the Outer were surprised that their hearts were as one with Usagi's, and that their Talismans would give her power. They take the Talismans shining in resonance for Usagi as the talismans' sign to tell Usagi the truth

Like on a meta level as far as I understand the purpose of the Outer Senshi being surprised by the shine of their Talismans, is a reflection of their own surprise in the amount of faith they have in the silly childish ideals of Usagi. 

The Saturn Hax Argument:

So much like with Usagi, there's an argument that could be made that Hotaru isn't actually much stronger than Pharaoh 90 in raw power. Like the end of the third arc is usually phrased "Sailor Saturn stomps Pharaoh 90" and she does absolutely, and it's cool and hilarious that sick little girl suddenly goes "I am the Angel of Death, the agony in the moment before death is so beautiful" but Pharaoh 90 actually lasts a long time. After Sailor Saturn starts using her negative aura, an energy that paralyzes Pharaoh 90 and which he can't absorb, he doesn't die, and in fact survives signifigantly into the next chapter

Pharaoh 90 does say she has a large negative aura, but that doesn't necessarily mean he thinks her energy is greater then his, or it could be that he's surprised a specifically negative aura could be so large. 

Like for comparison this is the death of the first arc final villain Metaria when faced with a power bigger than hers

and this is the death of the second arc final villain Death Phantom when confronted with a power bigger then his

It's not like Saturn is the messing around type, and later she literally sacrifices herself to kill Pharaoh 90, yelling at Pluto to hurry and seal away her and Pharaoh 90 in another dimension, strongly suggesting he's was a legitimate threat to her at that point on some level and that she couldn't just raw overpower him and make him disappear

So this is I think a pretty good argument for Super Sailor Moon. To argue it you really need to argue a combination of points. It's strongly implied that Saturn has a strong sense of destiny and that she is compelled by destiny to use the power of the Glaive when she is awoken, for that is the purpose for which she was awoken for.

It's possible she felt compelled as her destiny to lower the Glaive, and thus she sealed herself off and Pharaoh 90 away purely to spare her beloved friend Chibiusa and to serve her princess who believed in her, rather than any threat Pharaoh 90 posed to her. 

The bigger question is why didn't Sailor Saturn quickly kill Pharaoh 90, and there's a few answers you could try; that she was using that time to explain to the other Senshi, that she was sadistically drawing out the moment of Pharaoh 90's death for she calls that moment beautiful, or she was waiting for Super Sailor Moon to emerge from Pharaoh 90.

Darkness Barrier Argument:

So during the fourth arc, Usagi and Chibiusa are able to change into a different form of Super Sailor Moon and Super Sailor Chibi-Moon despite the Outer Senshi being away meaning there was no unity of hearts between the Senshi, from the Holy Grail due to the "need" too

This actually makes sense as in the prior arc Sailor Moon released the power of the Holy Grail, which is stated would bestow Neo-Queen Serenity's younger self (Sailor Moon) power in times of crisis. However this form is not as strong as she was at the end of the third arc which had the unity of hearts between the Senshi, and the released Holy Grail's power. This can also be seen in the fact that the Guardian Senshi had to unlock their super forms while at the end of the Third Arc, Super Sailor Moon simply granted the other senshi their super forms.

So the reason this is particularly relevant is during the fourth arc there's a darkness barrier over the Earth and Moon caused by Nehelenia, keeping the Senshi from transforming until they overpowered it with their Super Forms. 

It is implied even Hotaru would not have been able to transform normally and that the transformation of the Outer Senshi into their Super Forms so they could help their princess included her

The obvious implication being a Super Sailor Moon weaker than the one in Arc 3 could transform through the Darkness Barrier while Sailor Saturn could not. 

The first part is pretty solid and hard to argue, Super Sailor Moon at the start of Arc 4 is pretty solidly not as strong as end of Arc 3 Super Sailor Moon. To argue this point you'd have to argue that it's not necessarily the case that Hotaru couldn't transform or that she was weaker than she was in the third arc.

So who was stronger?

I think you could make a pretty fair argument for either to be stronger. To be honest I've gone kinda back on this one for a while, it's one of the most complex intra-universal SM vs matches. 

If I was trying to argue for Saturn I'd probably say something to the effect of "Hotaru arguably has several feats on the upper end of the Third Arc in just her civilian form (Pharaoh 90 calling her energy similar to that of the Taioron Crystal, surpressing Mistress 9's power, granting 4 Senshi super forms), she is continually hyped up over the course of the Third Arc, ending up overpowering the final villain at his strongest after he arguably withstood Super Sailor Moon's power with signifigantly less damage"

If I was trying to argue for Super Sailor Moon, I'm probably say something like "Usagi's energy has the best feats in the third arc transforming 7 Senshi and being 10,000x than the Taioran Crystal which Pharaoh 90 arguably compared Sailor Saturn too. Sailor Saturn relied primarily on hax to kill Pharaoh 90 and even then took signifigantly longer to kill him than you'd think if she was as strong as Super Sailor Moon. It's implied as well that she couldn't transform under the darkness barrier when a weaker form of Super Sailor Moon was able too."

I say all this to say that what I'm saying here is my current opinion, I think you could make a very good argument for the opposing view and I could change my mind on this case. That said currently I think that Super Sailor Moon had more raw energy than Sailor Saturn at the end of the third arc. That's not to say I think she'd win a fight, I think Saturn would win actually win a fight due to how hax she is. However it seems like it'd be harder to me to argue the points that are in SM's favor than the points in Saturn's favor. 

Part of it is that there isn't really an argument for Sailor Saturn to be a little bit stronger than Super Sailor Moon. You can argue Super Sailor Moon is much stronger than Sailor Saturn or a little bit stronger but if you're going to argue for Saturn all her points suggest she has to be way stronger. If you do that you have to argue either she was REALLY holding back against Pharaoh 90 for some reason or that Pharaoh 90 got WAY stronger, like not just 10,000x stronger, not just 10,000x + whatever the difference is between dying out Taioron Crystal and Peak Taioran Crystal, but whatever else the amount is between Saturn and Super Sailor Moon. Considering Saturn's character and the fact that the strongest person Pharaoh 90 would have assimilated energy from IS Super Sailor Moon neither of those seem very realistic scenarios to me. 

So as of right now I think that Super Sailor Moon was stronger, maybe not be any kind of large margin but I think she probably outstripped Pharaoh 90's raw power by a greater degree than Base Sailor Saturn did. I understand if you disagree, I think you can make a fairly convincing argument for either side, that's just how it seems to me. 

Ultimately, I think some level of ambiguity is intended in Naoko's writing, both Sailor Moon and Sailor Saturn's powers are supposed to be ambigious, especially the latter. Sailor Moon's power is supposed to represent the ability of a person to show you a different them, that a normal flawed person might be transformed by the power of love into a hero of justice. Sailor Saturn's power is contrast represents the seemingly inevitable cycle of death and life/rebirth, and how even horrific tragedy like the broken-ness of Hotaru's life in the Mugen Arc can be reborn in hope, a soldier born to kill everyone ending up saving everyone due to a young girl's belief in her friend. Just as these strange archetypes play out in our lives, so too are their powers the strangest of the Sailor Senshis' powers. These two concepts play out in the climax of the third arc, in Saturn's words to Moon before her sacrifice, praise that Saturn is the one that one brings about death for the sake of rebirth, but that after every death there is hope and that Sailor Moon is the one who brings it about. In this I think Naoko places the individual ennobled by the power of love central to that mysterious process of death and rebirth, and suggests that Sailor Moon was the stronger of the two.