Wednesday, July 22, 2020

Are Spider-Man's feats outliers

There has been contention that the town+ showings of Spider-Man are outliers. This blog is going to generally argue against this notion but acknowledges the inherent difficulty in assessing whether anything is an outlier due to the subjectivity of the term.

An outlier is a vs term for a feat that is, and both the obd and vs battle wiki states that it is "completely and irreconcibiliy different from a character's normal displayed level of power." You'd think then it would be a fairly rare occurence, however personally I think the claim is used very often, often when the difference is wholly reconcilable with in-universe explanations.

Obviously "outlier" is going to be subjective, but then the question comes up; how many feats would someone like Spider-Man need to have at a certain level before it is accepted? 10? 20? 100? Obviously Spider-Man isn't going to reach 100 town level feats but I'm asking for a reasonable number. What number of town level+ feats would be an acceptable number to present before it is accepted?

See when I was introduced to the concept of outlier, the concept was that a character might have lots of feat on one level, then one feat massively above that, which would make that feat the outlier. Not including scaling Spider-Man actually has that array, with town to city level feats being the level with many feats and the singular planet level feat being the outlier feat (yes Spider-Man actually has a planetary feat without scaling). Outliers should not be a catch all for "This character doesn't seem this level to me so we can't use a dozen feats" because if you do that, then you are starting to override evidence by a base intuition, when evidence should always be paramount in debate.

I understand the difficulty in scaling Marvel, Marvel's internal scaling is inconsistent. However that is no argument against scaling it like any other verse. Just scale a character to their own feats and to the feats of any character that they are always portrayed as equal or above. People bring up nonsense like Black Panther restraining Silver Surfer but that's really easy to argue against just by showing that Surfer is equal to x who stomped Black Panther so it's contradictory to scale that.

The other argument is that because Spider-Man has more appearences, that means we must be more conservative in our scaling of him. Not only is this special pleading, this principle does not seem logical when attempted to be applied at any other scale. If a character has a single appearence vs a hundred chapter series, we do not say their feats are of different value or meaning. I don't see why length of series, or number of writers, means we should ignore feats.

Of course all of this is obviously dependent on Spider-Man actually having the feats to back it up. Now I don't know all the feats for the other Marvel Street Tiers since I didn't research them, I just researched Spider-Man and a little bit into the people he fought. But these are the feats I've found. This is an abbreviation, the full explanation for all the feats are in my actual Spider-Man blog:


1: Spider-Man violently destroys Doctor Octopus' arms which survived a nuclear blast usually calced to be between hundreds of tons of tnt to kilotons
2: Scales to Electro, who absorbs all the electricity of New York becoming a blindly white light across the city burning like a star or a nova before later increasing his power a thousandfold. Spider-Man still beats him physically. Electro also created an electrical storm with one blast shutting down power to New York.
3: Stronger then Captain America whose fists are like Pint Sized A-Bombs
4: Scales to Morbius who hits like an H-Bomb
4.5: Scales to Luke Cage who has his nuke feat albeit this one is relatively controversial
5: Scales to Iron Fist who has megaton feats like hitting like an H-Bomb after making his fist glow like a star, defeating Radion. Iron Fist claims he could never beat Spider-Man.
6: Scales to Deadpool who has feats in this range (though some of not legit, this nuke feat is actually pretty clear with the only arguments being he regen-ed even though his regen is far to slow for that and his costume wouldn't be there, and that being under a dinosaur somehow protected him from a nuke)
7: Hurts Carol with a punch who has feats of this degree. VS wiki apparently scales her to Iron Man for reasons that don't seem very compelling and honestly like far more of a stretch.
8: Scales to Iceman who has an 800 ton feat and created an ice city
9: Moves himself and the Hulk fast enough that the kinetic energy would be over a kiloton
10: Breaks a coil that no force on Earth could break
11: Survives Cyclops optic beams which blew off the top of a mountain
12: Survived the epicenter of a volcano explosion
13: Survived attacks from Wayep, who created a snowstorm
14: Scales to Brigham's energy which was stated to be able to destroy a city (also note that Doctor Octopus's arms are unaffected by that level of energy)

This is generally not including more sketchy things like Cyclone claiming to have the power of a 100 cyclones. It's also not including city block to multi-city block feats outside of really high end ones that support the general point.

He also has a planetary feat of surviving a blow that could shatter a world however this is what I think of as the outlier.

Spider-Man has somewhere from 10-20 feats either directly or from scaling to town to city level range depending on how you count, maybe more if there are a lot more street tier feats from others I don't know. I can't tell you whether that is consistent enough to not be an outlier given the inherent subjectivity of the term "outlier" but at some point I must ask what number of feats Spider-Man would need to be accepted at the level, especially given the high bar of being "completely and irrevocably different".

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