My favorite verses and vs battles wiki

If someone FROM vs battles wiki reads this....uhhh....hello! I don't mean to insult or anything, I just disagree with a few of your positions. Hopefully you won't take this as being overtly harsh or anything, I don't like when vs debating gets really heated and angry, I like when it's light and fun.

I'm not one of the harshest critics of vs battles wiki. I have previously published a blog defending them. Honestly if I decided all versus debating communities into 2, we would be the same one (my division would be between what I consider the empiricists and the rationalists). With that said I disagree with their assessment on some of my favorite verses. This is my blog noting where our thoughts are different and why. Hopefully it will be apparent that I am not a mindless zombie attacking the site. I am doing this because vs battles wiki is highly influential and I am hoping that this will contribute some amount to creating what I view as a proper assessment of these verses.

This is not a blog by a fanatic demanding that they upgrade my favorite verses. If they aligned with my views about as many of these verses would be downgraded as the amount upgraded as you will see. There is 32 verses I gave an 8/10 or higher. This is the list alphabetically.

Axis Powers Hetalia:
Perfectly fine.

Bayonetta:
Seems fine generally. Think you could probably upgrade Madama Butterfly and Madama Styx to Bayonetta's powers given Bayo gets most of her powers from Madama Butterfly.

Cardcaptor Sakura:
No profiles. I did see a prototype profile (I think) and I gotta say...looks good!

I disagree with vs battles wiki logic about dimension tiering and infinite or higher speeds but assuming we are following the rules of vs battles wikis standards this seems correct.

That said I think Sakura pre-Tsubasa is stronger then Building, even with the "likely higher" clarification. In the original Manga Earthy threatened a city, flower covered a city with flowers, maze is it's own labyrinth-sized dimension, Dark can cover the Sun and other stars in darkness and Light can counter Darkness and bright forth the lights of the sky which even a low estimate would probably put at like continent-planet level. The anime also includes rain, storm and snow each being able to change the weather, Fire being able to instantly evaporate the snow covering a city and Water being able to control an entire ocean. Also Sakura was said to have surpassed Clow Reed, demonstrated when she split his power between Eriol and her father and in Movie 2 Sakura transforming Nothing to Hope despite Nothing having negative power to equal the positive power of all 52 cards that Clow Reed put all his power into.

Also I would strongly disagree with Watery being one of the weakest of Sakura's cards given it is one of the four corner stone Elemental Cards given precedence over 1/6th of the deck.

Cutey Honey:
Bit weird, they have profiles for a lot of the anime versions of Honey, but not for the original manga. I'm not as proficient with the anime's feats so can't really comment. Manga Honey is probably one of the weakest versions, if not the weakest version though.

Danny Phantom:
So this is a bit of a recurring element I've noticed when the wiki and western animation characters. Often a feat is taken from chronologically early on and then just applied completely as though the characters get no stronger. While it is often not expressed explicitly if a character gets superior feats does it not suggest that the character get stronger? This seems consistent with the logic the wiki uses putting DCEU Superman much stronger after his resurrection.

So for Danny Phantom for instance, he is put as Multi-City Block Level based on two feats (one of which IIRC happened as early as episode 1) and subsonic again based on a feat from one of the earliest episodes. I mean Danny didn't even know Duplication was a thing before fighting Vlad and yet season 3 he duplicated into 4 copies.

Later feats include things like being comparable to Vlad including beating him at several points in history to stop him from changing time, Vlad being strong enough to hurt Vortex and survive an attack from him, Danny moving comparable to lightning from Vortex, Danny fighting Vortex himself and Danny outright beating up Undergrowth including blowing up his arm with a single blast before he regen-erated it and Undergrowth being implied to be comparable to Vortex by their bounties.

DC Comics:
Obviously this is a bit of a complex one because it's so big. Some general points
-Disagree on the Presence and the Writer being separate entities although that's obviously a broad cosmological concept and not directly vs debating related.
-I dislike having all the street tiers based on Katana's feat since it was an arm speed feat reaching the lower boundary of MHS by a relatively quick street tier.
-I think New 52 Powerhouses of Earth are probably more like stellar level based on several supernova and black hole feats, and on Wonder Woman fighting New 52 Apollo who was the Sun itself
-I think the Post-Crisis Powerhouses of Earth are probably low galactic, which since vs wiki doesn't have a low galactic level would be counted as multi-stellar based on a few feats, like the Green Lanterns stopping a galaxy busting bomb, Superman's "Half a galaxy" feat, Wonder Woman being able to compete with the Post-Crisis Avatar of Ares who was able to easily become the size of the promethean giants much much larger then star systems, etc.
-I disagree on Base Anti-Monitor and The Monitor being 2-A. I would put them at low multiversal. Can't address the argument though because Base Anti-Monitor's comes from scaling to the Monitor and the first link for the Monitor is broken.
-Azazel is currently listed at Unknown but I feel you could probably just scale him to Trigon or at least his weakling demonic sons given Azazel's rank in Hell.

Divine Comedy:
No profiles.

Freedom Force:
No profiles.

God of War:
Obviously one of the two big disagreements we have. Perhaps I am missing something by the fact that English is not my first language, but it seems pretty unambigious to me based on the information that the Greek Gods reach Universe Level and given you have already upgraded the Norse this would only further seem to be evident.

Magic Knight Rayearth:
No profiles. Used to have a Hikaru one.

Magicka:
No profiles.

Metroid:
Disagree though on a more minor scale then most of these. I feel a few of the "feats" for Metroid are ignoring the surface area. I have Samus in most of her Suits at Island-Country Level based on Ridley's feat in the manga, on the Tallon Metroids surviving some of the energy of the Leviathan impact (though again surface area, they'd be taking a tiny portion of that energy) and some other things and the top tiers at planet level based on Dark Samus surviving a planet-sized dimension collapsing on her and Dark Samus becoming one with a planet. I disagree with them being low Stellar based on Light Samus converting a planet to energy but Dark Samus is so much smaller then the planet she would have taken a tiny fraction of that energy.

Okami:
Tiny difference in opinion here. Vs wiki has Okami at Multi-Stellar while I content it should be at galactic. From what I can tell there was an attempt to revise it to galactic and yet despite zero opposition it got no attention and so nothing happened.

Heard Okamiden upgraded the verse as well.

Ouran High School Host Club:
No profiles, nor should they probably. It's a featless street level comedy verse.

Over the Garden Wall:
Eh, The Beast's profile seems kinda low though I don't recall the feats enough to say for sure. Would have to go over the series again.

Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt:
Don't agree per se but also not sure. Going based on the upgrade thread

Panty taking the explosion is a feat but she is so much smaller then the exploding object she'd be taking a fraction of the energy

Garterbelt was cursed with immortality by Judgement which is why he didn't die of old age. Hence the feat of him surviving that is a feat of Judgement's "curse" on him and I don't see why you'd scale that to the Angels since they're never stated to be more durable then him or anything. Maybe because Stocking sliced him up but he regenerated just fine so it seems more like she couldn't kill him either because the Curse

Stocking taking the moon's sneeze is a legit feat though again she's so much smaller then the moon can't see her taking a huge amount of energy though probably a fair amount.

Was it stated that Judgement created the constellation? Can't actually watch the clip because copyright claim on it.

Pretty Cure:
Pretty much agree. That said think you could probably scale Cure Marine to FTL based on her shielding Cure Blossom rather then just FTL reactions and regardless I definitely think the anniversary movies show that the veteran cures would scale speedwise to the newer cures.

Also Goyan survived the Big Bang and the Splash Star attack should scale. Doesn't scale to any of them individually but still.

Princess Tutu:
No profiles.

Puella Magi Madoka Magicka:
The other big disagreement. Outside of the usual speed thing the verse is not multiversal. There's two things are people are using to claim that and neither make sense.

1: No Madoka did not warp the concept of witches out of the multiverse, that isn't what her wish was and it's not what we see her do on screen. We see her go and stop each witch from being born and this causes the multiverse to change. Rebellion hinges on the fact that if Madoka can't get to a place a Magical Girl will still become a witch providing pretty clear evidence that the concepts of witches still exists. The Multiverse changed in response to Madoka's actions but that would be like saying Flash is a Universal Reality Warper because he made the New 52 (ok he didn't Manhattan didn't but you get the idea) or that Anime Sailor Moon is a Universal Reality because she altered an event in Nehelenia's past creating a new timeline.

2: Madoka being omnipresent. Not is that contradicted by what we see and arguablly by the plot of Rebellion, it also doesn't really....matter. Not to sound dumb about this, but Madoka's presence being everywhere in the multiverse isn't a physical feat. Madoka is not a physical entity. Her ability to affect the physical realm is not dependent on her presence in the physical realm. Compare to say Darkseid who existed across the multiverse and more importantly was dragging the whole thing physically down into the void, showing that he was destroying the multiverse. Madoka's presence does not do anything to the physical realm and even if she was a physical entity the size of the multiverse that would give her multiversal durability and would allow her to give off multiversal energy in a charge but unless the enemy is also multiverse sized that would still not be putting multiverse level energy into them because of surface area.

I really strongly disagree with the wank of Madoka, and it's the one that annoys me more then any other because some of the claims that people make are contradictory to the plot of Madoka and as a major fan of the series seeing the claims run rampant annoys me.

Sailor Moon:
My favorite verse.

Again disagree with it being "infinite" or "immeasurable" in speed. Also disagree on the top tiers being multiversal for reasons. Basically it assumes that the cosmos restored by the lambda power includes a bunch of side dimensions for reasons I don't understand. Granted the Lambda Power>>>Chaos the universal power so it's not like it would be inconsistent per se. The Universe-Creating Silver Crystal's power is merely an aspect of the Lambda Power. Still I don't know why people are using that as a feat.

Also for speed don't know why everyone in Arc 5 is scaled to the Silver Crystal's light. While they are quite fast given the Lamdba Power sent all the star seeds to their proper places in space and time very quickly and the Eternal Amazon Senshi who are like the weakest fighters in Arc were able to fly from the outside of Galaxia's castle to the Galaxy Cauldron inside it before the Star Seeds had even left the cauldron. Still I don't know why people are scaling to the big SC's light feat. Kaguya has a reaction feat to it and Nehelenia sort of does. That said SM is not like DBZ where a stronger character is usually just superior in all stats to a weaker character.

I think the first arc is also kinda lowballed. Kunzite's barrier was surviving the energy of the Silver Crystal as wielded by Princess Serenity and Luna warned that if a villain got the Silver Crystal they would be easily able to blow up a star not to mention Queen Beryl despite knowing that the SC could casually produce stellar levels of energy and knowing Princess Serenity's ability to unleash it's power and having memories of her prior life as she remembered her love for Endymion still could not believe the amount of energy coming off it. Blah Blah blah, the first arc should be stellar same as second but meh not a big deal.

Also the bottom tiers are really lowballed. Morga should be at least scale-able to the Mooncats including Artemis who quickly brought Luna to the Moon and brought Minako from Venus to Earth in the span of one night and is probably scale-able to the Dark Agency member DeVleene whose sole job was to serve tea and sweets to Danburite and was able to maintain a building.

I also disagree with the Amazones Quartet being considered galactic because they summoned a tree that bound the super guardian senshi. First off that would scale to their senshi's strength not their ap/dura but more importantly that seems more like they summoned something strong not that they are very strong. Zirconia said the Quartet would get crushed if they went head to head with the Senshi.

Saint Seiya:
I disagree with the God Saints being Multiversal unless there's a feat I'm missing. The 5 God Saints and Athena were only able to barely wound Hades whose best feat afaik is maintaining 3 universe sized dimensions.

Also I feel you could upgrade the Mid to High Tier Gold Saints. Aries Mu's Starlight Extinction feat is arguably universal which is consistent enough with Leo Aiolia's Photon Burst being equal to Galaxian Explosion. I think Low Tier Gold Saints are Multi-Stellar, Mid Tier Gold Saints are Multi-Stellar with Multi-Galactic to Universal Techniques, and High Tier ones are Universal.

Shamanic Princess:
No profiles.

The Powerpuff Girls:
I feel you could probably upgrade the high tiers to Stellar level based on HIM maintaining a chalk dimension with it's own sun and on scaling to Monkey who towed an entire star system.

Also speedwise...this is the other thing with the cartoon characters and getting stronger thing. The PPG did that 1.2c feat when they were only a few days old. They have faster FTL feats pretty much unambigiously and have some more far out things like matching Mojo's ships who can quickly traverse the universe and if you are including inter-series scaling which you should since they are canon to each other, the PPG scale to time barrier feats with Super Friends since they also broke the time barrier.

The Stanley Parable:
Vs wiki has the Narrator much weaker then I do though it's understandable given some of the stuff in SP and how much of a weird verse it is to analyze. Maybe the new updates will upgrade. In the meantime if I may just ask as an honest question. In your composite hierarchies page you say

"Within such a cosmology, the difference between these layers/planes is actually greater then the difference between physical dimensions, due to each layer containing several dimensions within them. Otherwise these can be known as metaphysical layers.

In most cases, these meta-layers have a reality-fiction difference, meaning, the difference between each layer (not the dimensions of the layers) is like the difference between reality and fiction. Basically, to a higher layer entity, the lower entity is so insignificant that it can hardly be called real."

By this logic shouldn't the Narrator be a dimension higher? After all he views the game as his story and nothing more, calling it such many times. Likewise there's also Female Narrator who views the Narrator as the Narrator views Stanley and the Essence of Divine Art who exists in all of these things.

Tokyo Mew Mew:
Looks fine, only 3 profiles. I realized that Ichigo probably doesn't have planetary dura and Deep Blue just allowed her to survive via his light orb but that's a minor point. Not sure why the light orb ability isn't mentioned on Deep Blue's profile.

Undertale:
Disagree on a lot of the assessment of this verse. I would agree that collapsing the "game" as Omega Flowey and Chara do are universal feats but I strongly disagree that destroying save files is a feat of power. If anything it seems like just a feat of metahax. Save Files are not timelines, they are save files. They are a file in a computer that stores data. Not a timeline. I disagree that some of the animations should be viewed as the physical phemenona they appear to be given that the fights take place on the SOUL plane.

Also standard speed thing. I don't agree with how infinite speed is conceptualized there at all.

Wander over Yonder:
Verse seems kinda low tbh. I think you could raise the verse to galactic on account of Wander plugging a galaxy busting black hole with his finger at the start of "The Hole...lotta nothing."

Xiaolin Showdown:
Haven't seen the second series. Verse looks pretty good though from what I know. Thought that there could be a really good feat in "Saving Omi" where Jack Spicer of all people lightning-times while shrunk inside Omi's head which would be higher then normal lightning timing from electrical brain impulses since he would have to be reacting to lightning while at a tiny tiny distance away (and the changing chopsticks don't increase reflexes or anything) but then found out electrical brain impulses don't actually travel that fast. RIP.

xxxHolic:
No profiles.

Yu Yu Hakusho:
Verse looks good. Completely agree.

Yu-gi-oh!:
Ok the top tiers are clearly universal as evidenced by the movie showing that prana ie the power derived from the pharaoh can maintain a universe and in the manga prequel to the movie a highly boosted Blue Eyes lit up an infinite dimension as well as the original manga calling Zorc the creator of all darkness.

Also actually think the game mechanics should be recognized for "modern day" Yu-gi-oh! because the idea of the games of darkness is that they make the game you are playing real and dangerous and so the game mechanics in the context of a game of darkness would be real.

Also there's kind of a reaction speed feat in the Duelist Kingdom Arc where Yugi, Jonouchi and the Labyrinth brothers react to lightning. Possibly an outlier though.

Yuki Yuna is a Hero:
Verse looks good, agreed.

To quickly go over the speed thing since I brought it up several times, I strongly disagree with the notion that you can get infinite speed by moving a finite distance in zero time. Speed is (Change in Space) divided by (Change in Time). If change in time is 0 then you are dividing by zero and you can't divide by zero. For X/0 there is no number to satisfy the equation unless x is also equal to zero in which case any number solves the equation. You CAN have infinite speed but only by moving an infinite distance in a finite time or if the author says the speed is infinite.


So yeah hope this shows I don't just try and wank verses I like and downplay verses I don't like and I mindlessly hate vs battles wiki. I don't expect them to change their profiles AT ALL based on this post, just making it in the hopes it helps push the vs community in the right direction.