How to be OP in Shamanic Princess-verse.
Local to City Scale Threat:
Shamanic Princess, often considered the first "dark" magical girl series, takes place in a universe where there is a separate "guardian" world, a world inhabited by the race of guardians, worshipers of the ancient entity the Throne of Yord who have devoted themselves to the maintenance and defense of existence against the potential threat of the Throne of Yord becoming unstable.
This is the tier of the guardian's mages in general as well as their partner familiars. The Guardian Mages scale to a suppressed Throne of Yord as they have had to keep it restrained for countless time, and Tiara was able to fight suppressed Throne of Yord evenly. Even while suppressed, the Throne of Yord was able to casually create a dimension containing it's own forest, which would likely be in the town level range and was able to casually create an inter-dimensional portal the size of a town. This suggests the verse's fighters would generally be in the town level. Demon Form Tiara also punched Demon Form Leon from within a town to a cliff outside that town, past the horizon and flew over to him in seconds, requiring low hypersonic speeds.
Mages in this tier tend to have a fairly solid array of powers. Levitation, Magical Shields capable of surviving the full of power of the Throne of Yord which should be at least planetary, summoning of demonic entites, fusing with said demonic entities to boost their physical power, and magical sensing.
Oh and they also have inter-dimensional movement and by using the power of their familiars they can stop time.
You might think that the proper way to beat most of the people would be magic. However magic is a dangerous proposition because there is a class of beings from Guardian World known as neutralizers who sole ability is to radiate anti-magic. It is in fact the neutralizers' job to nullify the magic of the Throne of Yord to keep the dark being pacified, thought it is unknown for many neutralizers this takes.
This becomes rather troublesome due to the sheer number of potential adversaries an invader might have to face, and he fact that any of them can simply stop time at will or escape via dimensional travel. So does the verse have any weaknesses?
Well when you have a verse with a lot of powers you don't want to activate, stealth and range seem like they would be helpful and they WOULD be here but not the ultimate counter they might seem since the verse has magical sensing (though it's not that strong) and their time stop does have at least a city-wide range, even if their attacks don't.
Do they have any real weaknesses? Yes, there's one big one. All of the spells in Shamanic Princess require they to move around a bunch and/or to cast a few sentence long invocation. As such the caveman answer, of picking someone with good stats and just running up and punching them, is actually a valid strategy, and while most of my picks here can do that to an extent, I feel like we can do better then that.
Another strategy I think would be good to employ are any abilities that restrict movement like binding or paralysis which was actually seen used in the fight between Tiara and Lena, or any ability that forcibly silences people and keeps them from speaking since without invocation they can't cast a lot.
Really any strategy however that can effectively keep them from using their abilities by putting a lot of pressure on such as lots of attacks or somehow disabling their options would be effective here.
So who to use as a counter? Well my first counter idea would be
Mages in this tier tend to have a fairly solid array of powers. Levitation, Magical Shields capable of surviving the full of power of the Throne of Yord which should be at least planetary, summoning of demonic entites, fusing with said demonic entities to boost their physical power, and magical sensing.
Oh and they also have inter-dimensional movement and by using the power of their familiars they can stop time.
You might think that the proper way to beat most of the people would be magic. However magic is a dangerous proposition because there is a class of beings from Guardian World known as neutralizers who sole ability is to radiate anti-magic. It is in fact the neutralizers' job to nullify the magic of the Throne of Yord to keep the dark being pacified, thought it is unknown for many neutralizers this takes.
This becomes rather troublesome due to the sheer number of potential adversaries an invader might have to face, and he fact that any of them can simply stop time at will or escape via dimensional travel. So does the verse have any weaknesses?
Well when you have a verse with a lot of powers you don't want to activate, stealth and range seem like they would be helpful and they WOULD be here but not the ultimate counter they might seem since the verse has magical sensing (though it's not that strong) and their time stop does have at least a city-wide range, even if their attacks don't.
Do they have any real weaknesses? Yes, there's one big one. All of the spells in Shamanic Princess require they to move around a bunch and/or to cast a few sentence long invocation. As such the caveman answer, of picking someone with good stats and just running up and punching them, is actually a valid strategy, and while most of my picks here can do that to an extent, I feel like we can do better then that.
Another strategy I think would be good to employ are any abilities that restrict movement like binding or paralysis which was actually seen used in the fight between Tiara and Lena, or any ability that forcibly silences people and keeps them from speaking since without invocation they can't cast a lot.
Really any strategy however that can effectively keep them from using their abilities by putting a lot of pressure on such as lots of attacks or somehow disabling their options would be effective here.
So who to use as a counter? Well my first counter idea would be
Trident Ursula from the Little Mermaid.
Ursula in her Giant State easily scales to Ariel, who was able to search an entire sea quickly for her daughter, which would give her likely hypersonic speed, fast enough at the very least to keep up. She was also powerful enough to conjure a storm with divine power, requiring her divine power to be at least kiloton level.
Speaking of which, with the power of the Trident, Ursula used divine power rather then magic, meaning neutralizers wouldn't work on her. Ursula stated she has the power to control the entire ocean, giving her a range vastly beyond what anyone on this tier had, and she could also control lightning, something the very at the lower end of hypersonic would be extremely hard pressed to dodge. Through some lightning bolts will either damage them or will distract them long enough for her to quickly flood the area they're in. Water is highly restraining against making complex motions for spell-casting and also being underwater prevents one from speaking. Even if you start an invocation, getting a wave in your mouth will cease it. Ursula could simply continually flood the battlefield and bombard it with lightning and the mages would be very hard pressed to cast at all.
Ursula also demonstrated the power to turn people into polyps, one-shotting any potential threats that aren't shielded and was able to suck up Ariel's voice. If she did that it would severely limit an SP-verse mage from casting.
The only real dangers to her would be if a mage does manage to get off something like a time stop or a clear hit, as she's a bit of a glass cannon. While I don't think that's hugely likely, depending on battlefield it could happen, so for a more consistent counter I would suggest
Heathcliff from Sword Art Online.
Heathcliff as the avatar of the creator of SAO should potentially scale to the final boss of SAO who has a multi-city block level feat, which would make him below but the Mages of SP but strong enough to compete with them, especially given his sheer level of defense. Kirito, famed for his speed and attack power could not get a solid hit on Heathcliff, even in their final fight due to his speed and defense. Kirito is hypersonic from being able to slash through automatic fire.
Heathcliff's defense is even more amplified due to his regen and his enhanced senses, with a lot better sensory feats then the SP-verse Mages. SP Mages shields might be able to hold off a planetary attack but Heathcliff's ability can ignore that completely. His Holy Sword's bright light can briefly blind people which should work to disorient his enemies, let alone his admin powers of paralysis (Which nulls most of the SP Mages' spellcasting) and can existence erase.
Heathcliff is also a vastly more skilled and intelligent fighter then anyone in the tier, given he was considered the most skilled fighter in SAO and also the genius that created the VR tech SAO is built on.
Heathcliff could easily defend himself against any assault and simply shut down anyone via broken admin powers. That said he doesn't really have resistance to time stop which could possibly be a problem. For a character that literally resists everything the tier can use, you could use the best counter
Vivio Takamachi from Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha.
Vivio has multi-city block feats and possibly scales to Arf who created a storm and city-wide effects, which should put her in league with the Mages of Shamanic-Princess. Vivio is a melee styled mage, who focused on getting in close and punching them with the TSAB martial arts system known as Strike Arts.
Vivio's style of combat, analogous to rushdown style of fighting, is ideal, absolutely ideal for putting the pressure on an SP-verse mage and keeping them from casting.
She has a really strong defense called Counter Hitter which is an extremely strong defensive techniques however requires perfect timing to use. So how does she compare in speed to her opponents? Well she scales to MACH 61 sooooo, all her opponents seem to be moving in slow motion and she would be able to casually perfect block any opponent attack like playing Dance Dance Revolution on super slow mode. Vivio also has auto-shields that block, and I'm not kidding every single spell the SP-verse has ever shown, including anti-magic. Outside of raw power nothing would be able to do anything to Vivio, and even those could be blocked with Counter Hitter or just her raw durability.
Vivio also has binding spells, which you know, also counters SP-verse Mages form of spellcasting and also stops inter-dimensional traveling. She even has passive telepathy that is stronger then the tier's magical sensing. Vivio is basically the ideal counter to the tier.
Planetary to Universal Scale Threat:
So the verse has a top tier called the Throne of Yord. The Throne of Yord is essentially a depiction of the Gnostic interpretation of God. The Throne of Yord is an abstract being who claims to transcend concepts of true and false and it is implied that both reality and dream are equally real to it. Yord maintained the existence of guardian world, and contained an entire world within itself. It can casually control entire species, as it sent the species of Leon to Guardian World, it can warp space and time such as creating whole dimensions or creating city-sized inter-dimensional portals from another dimension. It can control people at will and it is stated to be the source of all magic. It is even implied to be an omnipresent being that is one with existence, created existence as it is known and that it only was allowing itself to be pacified. Going just by what is seen it should be at least 2 times baseline planetary and should be at least in the lightspeed range as it can control and become light at will.
The Throne of Yord is an ancient eldritch being and it's conceptual nature makes it difficult to fight at all or even understand, especially coupled with it's manipulative nature. However it does have two notable weaknesses.
One is that it does not go for the kill against most beings. Likely being it does not view most beings as threats, it instead prefers to play with the beings, changing into a form identical in every way to that being or changing into their loved ones and playing with their emotions. This is actually likely a reference to Yord's secret loneliness and desire to be understood, it's attempt to explore other beings and relate to them which ties into it's second weakness.
Yord is secretly isolated and it's creation of reality was an attempt to relate and be understood. Any being that has attained enlightenment, realization of the oneness of being or the lack of limitation, any being that can truly come to understand Yord will actually fuse with Yord and be able to control Yord as Tiara was able to due upon attaining enlightenment.
My first counter is probably one I don't think people would think about as a counter for Throne of Yord but I believe really does work well
Saitama from One-Punch Man.
Saitama should be actually superior to the Throne of Yord's best feats as near-lightspeed attacks are "a joke" to Saitama and Saitama casually overpowered a blast that in numerous versions was stated to be able to destroy the planet (and implied violently destroy the planet). Saitama would be able to tank a raw power attack from Yord and would move fast enough Yord might have trouble detecting him.
Even if Throne of Yord was to copy Saitama, Saitama is always growing stronger, as shown by a computer simulation showing that Saitama can one-punch the Saitama of yesterday meaning that even if the Throne of Yord replicated a level of power Saitama had at one moment, Saitama would immediately be stronger because he would have grown in power from that moment.
Now the Throne of Yord IS massively more hax then Saitama, and Saitama can't physically affect an abstract entity which is where this would get really interesting. If the two fought, the Throne of Yord would try to replicate Saitama and try to understand him, while Saitama would be able to one-shot any form that Yord attempts to attack with. Most people don't realize this, but Saitama's form of training (100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, 100 squats, and a 10 kilometer run EVERY SINGLE DAY) is actually evoking practices from Zen Buddhism and Saitama's strength comes not just from physical training but from breaking through the human limiter, that which limits the human potential, meaning that he actually attained a form of enlightenment. He also spends much of the series in isolation, his own power keeping him from being able to relate to any other being....just like the case with the Throne of Yord. This means that Saitama would actually be able to relatively easy understand and relate to the Throne of Yord and fuse with him relatively easy.
If you disagree with the enlightenment argument here, a counter that is not as strong but is far more clearly enlightened would be
Tan Zang from Samurai Jack.
Tan Zang by scaling would be above base Shaolin Monks who could keep up with Samurai Jack. Jack, for comparison was able to move at 80% lightspeed, comparable to an actual ray of sunlight. This means Tan Zang would be comparable in speed to the Throne of Yord.
Tang Zang attained physical enlightenment by becoming one with nature, and would very easily be able to understand and fuse with the Throne of Yord.
It helps that Tan Zang was able to create mystic barriers that no even the "All-Seeing" Aku was able to peer through. While Yord would probably be able to detect him, this would likely slow him considerably, especially if Tan Zang starts in the Earth dimension where Yord's detection seems to be limited to some extent as he was unaware of Kagestu's sheer power level until Kagetsu challenged him.
The only real danger is physically speaking Tan Zang has no feats to compare to Yord so if the two were to get into a physical confrontation, Yord would probably win handily, somewhat the opposite of the above scenario. However for a character that combines the best parts of both strategies being power-wise an equal to Yord and also easily able to fuse and control with Yord I would suggest my ultimate counter
Beatrice from the Commedia.
Beatrice caused entire heavenly spheres to light up and should be relative to Lucifer who in his fall excavated the entirety of Hell, causing all the Land on one hemisphere of the Earth to rush upwards at massive speed and causing a mountain large enough to reach into heaven to spring out the other side of the world. Also the ascended can control light and can turn into light which is the exact same speed as the Throne of Yord.
Beatrice is comparable in direct stats to the Throne of Yord but in terms of abilities, she is the ideal counter. First of Beatrice is "Actus Purus" as a being of the highest ascended nature, the same with the angels. What this means is she made of "pure actuality" or "pure being" more fundamental then even concepts, and she can likely simply affect Yord as though he was a physical being and he would not have the ability to affect her. Her light also disorients and debilitates beings based on their level of sin, and Yord is the mad dark god, meaning even attempting to look at her would utterly confound Yord.
Beatrice as one of the ascended spends eternity viewing the nature of god and reaching a higher state of awareness, seeing across space and time perfectly, able to read thoughts etc. Given her infinite contemplation of the Commedia God, it is very likely she can easily merge with Yord should she choose, but even more notable, she represents the ennobleing power of love and faith that allows beings to ascend and purify, in other words her presence would allow the verse itself to become the type of beings like her that hard counter Yord. In conclusion, Yord would be able to do nothing to her, she is equal in power to him but can affect him normally, can essentially destroy his mind via her very sight, can casually absorb and control him, and can grant the entire verse the same power should she choose.
And that's how to be OP in the Shamanic Princess-verse.
I've actually been Waiting for This one because I always found this a pretty dang interesting Verse, everything about it was super artsy and the powers and stats are pretty dang solid so i wasnt sure what would be a good counter. I never thought Bindings and stuff of that nature could be so extremely broken, not to mention the interesting clutch of enlightenment! Beatrice personally seems to be OP as all hell, and definitely was one i remember being hard to counter in the Comedia Strat Guide. But I think one of the more interesting counters was Saitama, like I, and I am sure a lotta others, never would have thought that would work, like I would have glossed over him in a second due to knowing hes got no signifiant powers besides raw stats but DAMN he is just situationally perfect to take him out and im extremely impressed you realized that.
ReplyDeleteThat said i think my favorite counter was Vivio Chan, because shes like AS perfect as you could really get, being A. a superior physical fighter, B. immune to LITERALLY everything they could throw at her, and C. Adorable and Bubbly to the Point it thematically destroys this supposed Dark Verse Ironically
Fantastic Job
This verse, even though I am not familiar with it, had some really interesting counters here. Ursula was an interesting direction to take (I had no idea Ariel was that fast). I love your description for why Vivio would counter well as "like playing Dance Dance Revolution on super slow mode" lol. Interesting to see the polar opposite strategies of Saitama and Tan Zang in taking down the Throne of Yord. Finally, I thought it was fitting to find a counter to a Gnostic god concept with a being who lives by a different god concept with Beatrice. Might be one of my new favorite strategy guides from you.
ReplyDeleteOh man, here we go. I'm glad you're tackling this verse because I know you'll be able to put things in terms I can understand, and you did! I've seen this series from start to finish and it got my brain kinda noodly at times, not gonna lie :P So let's see what we got here. Things are separated quite logically between the mages and Yord. You did a fantastic job of targeting what the mages depend on to cast their spells; I thought Ursula's voice-stealing was especially noteworthy as one of the most creative and niche applications of an ability to make it OP that I've seen in this type of blog. Paralysis was another excellent tactic.
ReplyDeleteThe big cheese itself though, the Throne of Yord, how do you even be OP compared to it? Well, you answered that question brilliantly. I like the idea of tackling it in a way similar to how the protagonist actually "defeated" it in Shamanic Princess, except here we have people who would have a much easier time accomplishing that. Saitama's inclusion blew me away. I thought you were doing top notch work in the lower tier of this blog but the argument you put forth for Saitama being able to empathize with the Throne of Yord was above and beyond! I agree with you and it makes for quite the scene in my head. Beatrice of course takes the cake though. One of the most thorough stomps of a verse I've seen in a strategy guide; now THAT'S how to be OP!
Thanks for the blog, this one really stood out to me and I look forward to you tackling other unusual series in the future!