Thursday, May 13, 2021

Which secondary stat is strongest

 In vs debating there's a commonly talked about stat trinity; attack potency, durability, speed. When talking about two characters fighting this is nigh-universally the first thing brought up because a signifigant advantage in any of these stats, especially speed can make the matchup nearly insurrountable, with abilities capable of circumnavigating these stat advantages having a special classification for how important they are (hax.)

However there are other stats all characters have that can be important, particularly if the two are relatively close otherwise. These are things that have been incredibly important, even more important then the primary stats, in real life combat. These are the secondary stats. I've heard six stats proposed as secondary stats, two of which I am unsure of those. Those two are stealth and endurance.

While both of these are things that have been quite important in real world combat, they for different reasons don't work similarly to the other 4. Endurance is a universal stat that all characters would have some level of, has a kind of blurry line with durability, and can be relatively hard to quantify. Stealth on the other hand can be quantified, even if it's more difficult then the other secondary stats and is distinct but is very much not universe. Most characters either have no stealth ability, no inclination to try and use any stealth, or both and as such stealth can be thought of much more as an ability rather then a stat, even if in real life both for human combat and in nature stealth is a very important tool of combat. I'm not saying I think endurance and stealth shouldn't be viewed as secondary stats, just that I'm not sold on considering them in the same way.

The other 4 which are pretty solidly secondary stats in my mind are range, intelligence, skill, and stamina. Of those 4 I definitely think the least useful by a good margin is stamina. While fights in fiction are often lengthier, fights in both real life and in vs debating tend to be pretty quick and so running out is just not a major concern in 99% of battle. Stamina comparisons are usually just a question of "do either character have a weakness", with the answer being almost always "no" and with most of the remainder being "yes but not a large one, it probably doesn't won't come up." Another result of this is that with stamina there's no further advantage in degree. You can have literally infinitely more stamina then your opponent and if they have no stamina problem, it's not going to be relevant. The only times stamina ever comes up is when characters have big super techniques/forms that are highly taxing, or when fighting a character who uses energy-draining.

The other 3 are a lot closer, as all 3 can be very helpful in certain circumstances but I believe intelligence is the least useful of the three. Now intelligence can be very helpful in a fight, as it basically lets you use your best tactical option, but intelligence's advantage unlike the other two stats is conditional; it depends on how many options you already have, it just helps guide you to the best of those options. Intelligence helps by exploiting things like terrain (which for most vs matches is in a neutral environment without ability to really help), enemy weaknesses, use one's ability maximally efficient etc. However intelligence by itself doesn't really do much in a fight. Intelligence is more helpful then the other stats when the characters have a lot of options, and/or their opponents have easily exploitable weaknesses.

Between the two I believe to be the strongest; skill and range it's interesting to consider which is stronger. The argument for range is that if you can only have a small advantage in one; having a small range advantage is a lot better then having a small skill advantage. Small skill advantages are usually not super signifigant and can't overcome much in the way of any other advantage, people who are master martial artists will tell you they don't want to get into a fight with someone who has a foot on them in height because the difference in power and reach makes it an extremely difficult fight. Sure if two people are even in every other regard, a small skill advantage can break it in one's favor, but it can't by itself overcome most signifigant advantages.

Range, on the other hand, sure can. Throughout the history of human warfare, range has been one of, if not the biggest single advantage. Being able to hit from a further distance makes you essentially untouchable and even at very small scales like the difference of dagger vs. sword or sword vs. spear, the difference is both clear and signifigant. Humans were able to subjugate large dangerous animals way stronger then us like the mammoth not because we were trained warriors, but because we had ranged weapons; historically armies didn't train soldiers past a certain point in things like martial arts because it gave diminish returns, but getting superior range on an enemy even just from getting the high ground has always been tactically advantageous.

However range, in a similar vein to stamina doesn't give you much of one the more you go. The ability to hit someone and not be hit in return is a big advantage it gives unlike stamina difference, but the only difference having 10x someone's range and 100x someone's range is they have to travel a farther distance, a distance that is usually not that big for most characters with decent speed feats or things like teleportation.

The point skill has it's in advantage is that while range's advantage is expotential decay, skill's advantage is basically linear. Being cosmically more skilled then someone would give a noticably larger advantage then being just humanly more skilled. A large enough skill advantage can be a form of hax for instance letting you dodge attacks as though you had precog, let alone the abilities high enough skill often seems to give you in fiction. While a small advantage in range seems stronger then a small advantage in skill, a large advantage in skill seems stronger then a large advantage in range.

Overall I would say range is a better secondary stat while in the range of humanity and the real world, while skill is a better secondary stat when you get cosmically strong. Personally I think range is probably the best secondary stat overall, but I could see an argument the other way as well. 

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