Thursday, January 23, 2020

A quick analysis of Sailor Moon vs Superman


So for reasons unbeknowst to me, some people want a Death Battle between Sailor Moon vs Superman, or slightly more clear, Sailor Moon vs Supergirl. Now personally I don't think either of those fights make sense but given that Sailor Moon and DC Comics are my two favorite series of all time, and Sailor Moon and Superman are my favorite characters of all time, and as I don't think I've ever really commented on this particular fight, I felt like I'd make this blog giving my thoughts on what would happen if the two for some reason got into a fight. Not going to lie, my main concern making this blog is either for someone wanting to know who would win between my two favorite characters and for any Death Battle Researcher or Fan Blogger if DB actually decides to do Sailor Moon vs Supergirl

Both of these characters have numerous versions. For Sailor Moon this is strictly manga Sailor Moon. All the manga written by Naoko Takuechi including Codename: Sailor V, and the various side stories are canonical though Parallel Sailor Moon specifically takes place in an alternate universe. If you go by author approval, Sailor Moon Crystal and the Sailor Moon S Movie were both overseen directly by Naoko Takeuchi herself though this will be strictly focusing on the manga.

Superman has more versions then almost any character in fiction though I will be focusing on the mainline Earth-1 Superman. Due to Convergence undoing the Crisis on Infinite Earths Multiversal Collapse and DC Rebirth merging the Post-Crisis and New 52 Continuities I will be using the current Rebirth Superman who has feats from across the three periods of Earth-1 as I explained in this blog


In terms of raw power, both of these characters at first glance seem relative. I have personally called both of them Universal characters, though if we go into more specifics we find that it's not quite the case.

Sailor Moon reached universal levels in the fourth arc where after first transforming into Eternal Sailor Moon was able to one-shot Queen Nehelenia who was maintaing the dark universe


Yet this Eternal Form of Sailor Moon was weaker then Usagi in her civilian state during the fifth arc


The Fifth Arc version of Eternal Sailor Moon who should be over tens of thousands of times stronger then her civilain self would go on to rise in power 10 different times during the final arc, to the point that near the end she was able to fight Eternal Senshi who were being amped by an amp that made normal alien civilians as strong as Eternal Senshi. Sailor Moon is cosmically higher then baseline universal. 



In comparison Pre-Crisis Superman has essentially baseline universal feats, mostly compared to the Big Bang such as him pushing towards the center of the Big Bang and destroying a structure that could survive it


or being relative to beings with the power of the Big Bang



while Rebirth Superman is probably above baseline Universal, since DC Universes are suggested to be 100 trillion light years+


I don't think Superman can match the sheer scaling chain of Sailor Moon. 



vs battles wiki thinks both are low multiversal, though I disagree with both of those for obviously different reasons. Their argument for Sailor Moon is that her feat of restoring the cosmos entails all existence in Sailor Moon instead of just the main universe


as well as scaling to a similar feat from Chaos distorting the entire cosmos.

This is very similar to my disagreement with Madoka's feats as well, where they simply assume that a term like world, universe or cosmos means all existence including everything that can be interpreted as existing in the context of the verse. To me this seems overly generous. I think both Usagi and Madoka are universal though I guess from their perspective that seems an overly literal and conservative assumption.

for Superman (Pre-Crisis) in contrast, they base it on his battle with Jaxon the Mighty which restored a lot of timelines wiped out by The Trapper


Personally I viewed this is a time manipulation feat of convering energy to time manipulation of the Green Lantern Rings, and him being able to match that same energy, though again they would probably view that as strangely conservative.

Though even if you do that route, that would make Pre-Crisis Superman only about on par with Base Chaos, while Lambda Usagi killed Chaos with a single accidental burst of energy. Usagi also has two higher forms (Neo-Queen Serenity and Sailor Cosmos).

At best Supergirl's dealing of major damage to Anti-Monitor as suggest Superman could maybe do damage to Sailor Moon, but it doesn't seem like a lot


Sailor Moon has a pretty substantial advantage in terms of power, similar I would say.

In terms of speed, Superman is massively and totally faster. Comparing finite speeds for a second, the fastest things in the SM Universe is travel instantly to the edge of the universe. Assuming a normal sized universe, this is just over quintillions of times the speed of light. Quick example:



Superman in constrast scales to Wally West when Wally West was holding back to not run into the speedforce, who while amped just managed to break the time barrier traveling to Earth from space in a time frame smaller then any human term


which would be speeds exceeding 10^43c ridiculously and comically over anything in SM. Superman as a child was able to break the time barrier



and that's not even getting into his best speed feats.

Let's talk about infinite speed. Infinite speed comes from when you can move an infinite space in a finite time. Vs battles wiki also thinks moving in 0 time infinite, and moving in negative time to be immeasurable. I don't agree with that but if you do think that, both of them get up to immeasurable speed. 





While I don't agree that these are functionally speaking "speeds", this does make speed completely irrelevant. Both can time travel and both are acausal entities





So Superman is basically the tank of the Justice League and I don't see people talk about it much but one of Superman's strongest points against others in his tier is his sheer hax resistance. He and Supergirl both fought Blackstarr who can control the entire universe in every aspect, which is thematically almost the same as the Lambda Power


Even if you don't consider it like that, Superman has actual feats of resisting basically all of Usagi's haxes. For instance, take some of Usagi's strongest haxes. she has universal scale spacetime manipulation by scaling to Chibiusa 


or the ability to freeze time like Sailor Pluto via the Pluto Crystal


or a bunch of other spacetime shenanigans

Superman on the other hand has resistance to these types of feats like Superman physically breaking out of a time freeze


and survied a spacetime manipulation that was encompassing universes


Sailor Moon can use Galaxia's existence erasure 


Superman can resist Darkseid's Omega Beams



like Superman can resist all of Sailor Moon's haxes. 

The major problem for Superman comes from three things; raw power which I've already gone over, range and regen.

Sailor Moon's Range for most of her powers is only planetary as is most of Superman's powers. That said Sailor Moon's Lambda Power as shown above can encompass at the very least the entire universe, including all of time, while the only range feat for Superman I can think of even comparable is 


sealing off a universe, but it was only because he was sealing the warp bridging the two.

The two can chase each other to anywhere in spacetime, yet Usagi can affect an entire spacetime continuum at once, while Superman would need to get basically into melee range in comparison (solar system scale). 


The other problem is regen. Usagi's regen can accurately be called Low Godly + Reliant Immortality or Mid-Godly. 

Usagi has the Saturn's Crystal power which allows her to be reincarnted by the Saturn Spirit

 

and the Lambda Power will automatically recreate Usagi even if she erased from existence down to her Sailor Crystal


to kill Sailor Moon requires destroying Sailor Moon down to at the very least her spirit, and then not just destroying the universe IE reducing it to energy, but erasing it's energy. The most efficient way to do this would be some form of existence erasure on the universal scale and at least spiritual plane which could accmplish both.

Now Superman in particular actually does have a form of existence erasure that hits the conceptual plane


But there are two problems with this: 1 is the range and area of effect. Superman would not be able to do this to the entire universe before Usagi could just regen and use a burst of the lambda power which not only would be capable of killing Superman but would restore the entire spacetime continuum Superman had did damage too.

The second problem is character. Both Usagi and Superman are prone to holding back, not wanting to hurt people. The problem is that assuming they are motivated to fight each other Usagi doesn't have to kill anyone else to hurt Superman while Supeman would have to KILL AN ENTIRE UNIVERSE'S WORTH OF PEOPLE. There's no way that Superman would do that.

Sailor Moon can blast Superman from far outside his range with enough power to beat him, and can basically regen from anything he can do. He does have the advantage in intelligence and skill, but it's an NLF to say that because he's so smart he would win. 

Supergirl for the record is almost the same except she doesn't have that ability Superman used against Darkseid as far as we know, so at best she can maybe harm Sailor Moon with a punch if she really pushes herself but would have extreme trouble doing any serious damage. 



So yeah, Superman is faster but it's basically irrelevant because both have time travel and acausality meaning that either can simply appear in any moment or place they want too and protect any past version of himself or herself. Superman's blanket hax resistance protects against most of Usagi's abilities and he has advantage in skill and intelligence but Usagi's regen means he can't put her down and her raw power and range means she can simply one-shot basically the entire time. 

For Supergirl it's basically the same except Usagi's raw durability would be also difficult for her to get through.

There's a bunch more things you could say, but mostly along the lines of (Both characters can do this so there's no real advantage like inter-dimensional travel) or Usagi can do this but Superman can resist it (like soul manipulation for instance) IE doesn't really net anything. 

2 comments:

  1. Phenomenal research as always! It always impresses me when you approach these kind of questions with scientific papers levels of detail. I can't overstate that your knowledge of both series is very in-depth. Its funny how when people refer to Pre-crisis Superman, they only refer the Solar System destroying sneeze, when it turns out Supes has straight up Big Bang scaling. His hax is also really impressive and its interesting that I hear nobody talk about it. Your conclusion seems pretty sound with Usagi ultimately winning with her better regeneration, range, and power. I'll admit I wouldn't mind this matchup happening if only for the fact it may shatter some preconceptions about both characters (though yeah there are much better matchups for both). Also, I've had some interaction with VS Battles wiki people as of late and I can see what you mean with them being overly generous with stats sometimes.

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